Surprise! You're dead.

I'd almost forgotten that I joined this community, until I received an email for The Pulse newsletter. I had joined a few years ago, because of my frustration with the care my dad was receiving. Since he died in February my immediate thought was to unsubscribe. Then I thought about it again, and decided to post before unsubscribing.

My dad developed an infection which was dismissed by his idiot cardiologist as a "skin infection". He was otherwise active and healthy, albeit elderly. The idiot sent him to a dermatologist for treatment. The dermatologist tried to maintain his composure as he told my parents to run, not walk, to a DIFFERENT cardiologist, to treat the pacemaker infection. After having had an infection for a week, finally somebody had enough sense to put him on IV antibiotics for a few days.

The Wednesday after they got the infection under control, he went in to have the pacemaker replaced. During the procedure, the surgeon could not remove one of the leads. He used a laser to free the lead but that caused massive bleeding. They opened-up his chest to harvest a piece of his pericardium to patch the hole in his vena cava, left by the lead. What was supposed to be no more than a two-hour operation, lasted into Thursday morning. Finally, after 14 units of blood, he was out of surgery and into intensive care.

My sister-in-law called to tell me that she didn't have a good feeling, and said she really thought that my sister and I should "get down there". Luckily I am a pilot, so I flew my sister and myself to Temecula in under an hour, atop Los Angeles rush-hour traffic. We got there in time to see my dad, alive, on Thursday night, but he died Friday morning.

I'm not sure if he was ever told what happened to him... why he went in relatively healthy and came out with a zipper on his chest, only to meet his maker several hours later.

Dead is dead and it's permanent. Pick your doctors well and, if you can avoid sticking foreign objects in your heart... heck if you can avoid doctors at all... DO IT!

I hope this post helps some one. Best to you all,

-Elaine
(Thousand Oaks, CA)

13 Comments

Curious

by Truga - 2008-11-09 10:11:10

Elaine, I am an internist who has had his 2nd pacemaker put in after having had 2 heart attacks. The first one was a Biotronik (put in at Paradise Hospital, National City) and I developed a pacemaker syndrome. It was replaced with a St. Jude's pacemaker (put in at Scripps) and I've done much better clinically and functionally. My parents used to live in Murrieta (my sister still does) so I'm very familiar with the area. Can you tell me when the pacemaker was put in, what type it was, and at what hospital he was at when the pacemaker was inserted?

I have since moved out of state (retired) and will need the pacemaker replaced next year. So far the original leads are working OK.

Very sorry to hear of your loss. Seems to me that an attorney would be very interested in your case, IMO.

I'm so sorry for your loss...

by bambi - 2008-11-09 10:11:29

You have every right to be angry about the loss of your Dad. The majority of us don't have the "option" of needing a pacemaker. Many have had theirs placed on an emergency basis. We don't stick foreign objects into our hearts ourselves, but we do depend on the Dr.s to be able to do this with the skill they have been trained to use. I have personally had my leads removed and replaced, and was made aware of the risk involved for this procedure. One of the risks were exactly what happened to your Dad. It's devastating when someone you love is one of the statistics! I believe however that we make decisions to have procedures done in view of the risks, faith in our Dr.s and ultimately, faith in God. For many, these devices have saved their lives, and for others, they have prevented passing out while driving, or walking down stairs. I don't think your post will "help" anyone, but we can all recognize your grief! All the best to you,
Bambi

OH NO

by PeggyR - 2008-11-09 11:11:20

This scares the heck out of me, thought I was ok with all that has happened, but now I'm not certain. Almost wish I hadn't read the story.

oh, this makes me sick

by booknbrdcrzy - 2008-11-09 11:11:42

Is it common to get an infection AFTER you're healed??

Does the pacemaker have to be replaced if you get an infection??

When the batteries run down do they have to remove everything or just change the batteries?

So what Elaine was saying is that open heart surgery has to happen if the leads can't be removed easily?? How often does that happen?

It takes a lot to make me feel faint, but that's what I feel. Faint and sick and scared.
Booknbrdcrzy (Victoria)

So Sorry...

by mamafrey - 2008-11-10 02:11:30

I am 32 yr old mom of two energetic boys under the age of 4. I am one of those people who would be dead without my pm. I was one of those who was very afraid of my PM not only b/c I was young but because the day that I had my emergency surgery was the same day 14 years prior I was buring my dad of a massive heart attack at age 42. So I totally understand your anger and frusteration with your dad's idiot Dr. My dad had one of those also and I had a lot to deal with. I will be praying for you and your family and I mean that. Just know you do have to renew your faith in Dr's after something so devastating. There are good one's out there. And with my PM I hope to one day meet my grandchildren unlike my dad.

Truga

by elainep8 - 2008-11-10 04:11:31

I'll need to ask my mom if she remembers the brand-name of the implant. I seem to recall that his first one was a Pacesetter / St. Jude, but I do not believe the second one was. I know it was a combination defib / pacer and that they installed it after doing ablation to the point where he was dependent on it.

He had the procedure done at Scripps and died there.

We have thought about sueing, but we're really not sure whom to sue or even whose "fault" it is. The cardiologist was an idiot and let the infection go on too long but I don't think that's the reason the lead was stuck.

Do you know any attorneys who take these kinds of cases without bankrupting the family?

Thanks for your reply.

-e

Thanks for posting.

by Pika - 2008-11-10 06:11:04

Hi Elaine,

Sorry for your lost. My heart is going out to you and your family. I think I won't be posting anymore because everytime I comment my cardiologist, this site people either ignored me or thinking I am an idiot. Most of them thinking the doctors are higher respect, they won't do anything wrong. What were going wrong, probably is the patient's fault. "If the knife wasn't cut on youselves, you won't know the pain." They haven't gotten a cut yet so they don't understand how pain it is.

I can say I am the one who is waiting to faint. If I am good luck then I'll be able to wake up. If I'm not that fortunate, I'll go to your dad's place as well. My 2 GPs was totally agreed that it is something wrong in my heart but they're not specialise in this area. One sent me to a second opinion cardiologist. unfortunately he said it is too complex and he didn't want to take me. Now my second GP wants me to see another cardiologist for a second opinion. This one is very very expensive. I need to save up some money, otherwise I'll end up with a huge debt - Financial stress!

My cardiologist said, my heart is nothing wrong..... all in my head! I asked him to turn my pacemaker off and let me try for a few weeks. (Could it be a pacemaker symptom?) He told me, "CAN NOT!" I'm not a pacemaker dependent, he told me a pacemaker sitting in my chest just for an insurance purpose. I didn't use it.

I think you post is very helpful. It reminds me - They are still having some idiot doctors around. BE CAREFUL! Thanks.

Reply

by Truga - 2008-11-10 07:11:09

Sorry, I don't know any malpractice attorneys but they're listed in the yellow pages. From my experience, even though they say they take contingency for payment, they do ask you for upfront money to cover their office expenses (most are just bogus charges...reading case, mailing papers, price for a medical expert to review case [they always over-charge]) that burn the initial money up pretty fast (like $10,000 in 2 wks).

A regular attorney could give you a referral to a malpractice attorney.

Was your Dad at Scripps Memorial or Scripps Green? I was at Scripps Green and had good care from Dr. Rogers.

Good luck to you.

Prayers

by synchronicity - 2008-11-10 07:11:13

Prayers on your Dad. Now, get together with your siblings and sue the crap outa that doctor. We have to stop putting doctors up on pedistals. I've been in the Emergency Medical business for better than 25 years now at the Paramedic level and I've worked in all settings; in and out of hospital. Let me tell you, many Doctors are "winging it." They simply do not know. Let me tell everyone this: unless you're a terrible judge of character (which my biz has taught me well over the years) follow your instincts. If the doc you're gabbing with about something doesn' sound right or look right, he or she probably isn't. I have found myself and from dealing with my Dad's cardiologist in the Northeast generally speaking, the Eastern doctors from like Pakistan and similar places are the worst. They don't know jack. Again, follow your instincts. Just because some guy or gal has an MD after their name DOES NOT make them smarter than you.

Breathe...... it's good for you

by pacergirl - 2008-11-10 12:11:15

I understand the alarming feelings that some of you are experiencing. Let's calm down here. Elaine's story is a very sad one and I am so sorry to hear of the loss of her father. Especially under these circumstances.
She has taken time to share with us what happened. In doing so, we learn more and can arm ourselves with knowledge so we can be more aware. Now we know more about what can go wrong. We have read of infections, skin irritations, allergic reactions to medications and metals, these are not new problems. We just have to be smart and ask questions and share what we learn. That way we all are smarter and able to continue to support one another.
Pacergirl

p.s. Elaine... thank you for taking the time to share what happened to your Father with us... my heart goes out to you and your family.

Truga / Dr. Rogers

by elainep8 - 2008-11-13 02:11:29

Dr. Rogers was his surgeon and that is part of the reason we have been very reluctant to bring legal action. We believe that Dr. Rogers is one of the best and don't want to sue over a problem that developed prior to the attempted pacemaker replacement.

We're really not sure if anybody is to "blame" actually. We know that the lead got stuck and that there was an infection. We're really pist that his regular cardiologist (Dr. Amin in Temecula) was completely incompetent. But based on the data we have right now, we're not convinced that Dr. Amin directly contributed to his death. I.e., if Amin had treated the infection in a timely manner, we're not so sure that the outcome would have been different. My only reservation about Amin is that he over-dosed my dad once on Warfarin. If my dad bled 14 units because of that, yeah, I'd love to sue the pants off of Amin.

To me, at this point, my dad's death seems to be a very unfortunate end result of the consequenses of choosing a pacemaker in the first place. Yes, Bambi, he stuck something in his chest and it was a CHOICE. I know that plenty of people might argue that there are instances where a pacemaker is the only way to stay alive and that's fine. I'm not convinced, however, that he needed one in the first place. I think, with proper management of his condition, a pacer could have been avoided entirely.

I am not a granola-cruncher or an "alternative" freak; however I found an alternative to a total hip replacement for my ex-husband, that was not available in the USA exept in very rare instances. I mention this because I question the few alternatives that were presented to my dad for his irregular heartbeat. Oh, there are alternatives... just not HERE. When my ex presented with bone-on-bone, he was only offered a THR. When he asked his USA orthopod about resurfacing after I had done some research, the only reply was, "I am not familiar with that." That is EXACTLY what my dad's idiot cardiologist would reply to all kinds of stuff I asked my dad to query him on. Such as a home PT tester. Not familiar. REALLY? They exist! OMG! Well, it's all too late now... no sense beating a dead horse... or trying to raise a dead dad.

BTW, in 2006 I schlepped my ex to one of the few surgeons in the USA who does hip resurfacing. Prior to his surgery, my ex was barely able to move around with a cane. Now he's back to playing power volleyball and hiking the streets of Havana with a Bible in his hand... all without the amputation of his femoral neck. Have I created a monster? LOL.

Best,

-e

???????????????

by bambi - 2008-11-13 02:11:30

Dear Elaine,
I'm sensing some hostility towards me concerning what I thought was an encouraging post that I felt moved to write you. I am very sorry for your Dad's death. I stated that. I don't know of any patients who have stuck things in their own chests, and that was my comment. Also, many people don't make the choice to have their pacemakers put in. These are simply statements. You know nothing about my experiences or my losses revolving around medical incompetence. I lost my husband to cancer 15 years ago leaving me with 3 small children. There were many ''sketchy" decisions made by his Dr.'s. I was advised to pursue a law suit myself. I have also been one of the rare patients who have developing superior vena cava syndrome as a result of my pacemaker leads. I am sorry, if you mistook what I said. It is not, or ever is my intention to anger those who are already hurting!
Peace,
Bambi

We learn what your father went thro.

by Pika - 2008-11-13 05:11:22

Hi Elaine, It is NOT beating a dead horse...... What your dad went thro was the history or a lesson for us to learn. It makes us smarter and the case should not happen again in this forum's patient. I am very thankful for you to spend time and come back to contribute those info for us.

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Member Quotes

In fact after the final "tweaks" of my pacemaker programming at the one year check up it is working so well that I forget I have it.