Is this normal?

Hello, I'm new here and have joined because of concerns about my Dad, who has a 3 wire defib pacemaker. He got it 1 1/2 yrs. ago and just now got a meditron monitor to send readings. We watched the video, which said to call in a first reading to the clinic. Clinic (in a nearby city) said no, don't call it in, we'll send a transmission letter which will come in a couple of weeks and you can make an appointment to come in. I am concerned about the time lapses here, and in the meantime, dad is getting slower and slower in everything - walking, moving, talking - and his stamina is getting less and less with lots of naps and comments about knees feeling like they're going to give out, legs feeling like jelly, being a little light-headed. He goes for checkups with heart doctor in town who says all is well. So, is this all just normal or do we need to get other opinions? Is his enlarged heart getting worse...etc. Dad is 81,if that makes a difference, and I have very little experience with this. He also gets conflicting info from family doctor, heart doctor, and pacemaker doctor, which is confusing!

17 Comments

Welcome To The PM Club

by SMITTY - 2011-08-25 02:08:24


Hello Dcombs,

You didn't give any info in your dad's bio, so I don't if you live in the U.S. or not . The only reason I mention that is I hope our medical care has not become like I see some of our friends in other parts of the world talk about. But if you are in the U.S., call that clinic and tell them your dad needs a checkup now and insist on an appointment. If they can't give you one look for another Dr, which may not be a bad idea anyway.

Your dad getting slower and slower, the way you describe it, is not age related in opinion. I'm 82 and had a PM for 11 years. I know I'm slow, so slow in fact that my wife swears she needs to prop a stick up against me some time to see if I'm moving. In fact I sometimes think I must have one foot in the grave and the other on that well know banana peel, but not all of it is age related. Why we got one old dude named Frank who is a member here. Frank is 81 and that cat is all times telling us about some mountain he has just been out climbing. Yes I'm talking about him, not because I do not like or respect him and his pacemaker knowledge, but because I get so envious some time I could throttle him.

But your dad's symptoms "dad is getting slower and slower in everything - walking, moving, talking - and his stamina is getting less and less with lots of naps and comments about knees feeling like they're going to give out, legs feeling like jelly, being a little light-headed" I don't think are just because he is 81. I'll not even try to guess what the problem(s) may be but I will venture a guess that he needs a Dr that does more than just say "all is well."

Some of his problems sound as if they could be heart/pacemaker related but there is also an almost infinite number of other things that can cause, or contribute to his symptoms and I think he needs to see a Dr interested in helping him.

I wish your dad the best,

Smitty

Thanks

by dcombs - 2011-08-25 03:08:09

Thanks, Smitty. Dad has an appointment with his cardiologist Monday, and I have been invited to go along. Do you (or any other readers) have any suggestions on what questions we should ask?

Your Dad

by SMITTY - 2011-08-25 10:08:51

You said it best, "dad is getting slower and slower in everything - walking, moving, talking - and his stamina is getting less and less with lots of naps and comments about knees feeling like they're going to give out, legs feeling like jelly, being a little lightheaded, I don't think are just because he is 81." Make a list of those problems and them to the Dr and ask for an answer to each one. Don't hesitate to tell the Dr that you need to know. If necessary put a little emphasis on the questions by telling the Dr something to this effect,"if he continues to go down hill like he has for the last few months I need to know so I can arrange for somebody to take care of him." Just be sure your dad knows you are going to say that so he will know why you are doing it and your saying it doesn't upset him.

Good luck,

Smitty

Getting slower at 81

by ElectricFrank - 2011-08-26 01:08:08

I'm 81 and over the last 5 yrs or so I notice some slowing down, but its subtle and expected. The jelly legs and light headed feeling is a sign of a problem. They should be able to determine what is happening at the clinic.

What you need most is to go in with a attitude that you expect them to treat him as a human being. Don't take a bunch of stuff about him being 81. Also, don't accept the runaround between the various docs.

I can understand what you are going through. I am unusual for my age in that I look them in the eye and insist on service. Most people, like your dad, at this age grew up feeling that they can't question a doctor. Asking questions is not the same as questioning their approach.

good luck on the appt,

frank

Have you talked ...

by donr - 2011-08-26 01:08:14

...to your dad about his attitude toward life?

He just might be getting tired of it all. Not necessarily depressed, but tired of not being able to do much. This can be a regenerative thing, which can lead to a lack of interest in living. He might not ever say anything about it - but if you prod him, he probably will.

Get to be old & the body deteriorates very quickly if it is not kept active. I'm 75 & have noticed that merely a week on the outs w/ a bad hip that keeps me from working means that I have to really work at it to get active again & regain my stamina. It can be pretty discouraging.

Just a thought you might consider as an alternative to a physical issue.

Don

curmudgeonry

by ElectricFrank - 2011-08-26 05:08:46

Don,
I like that!

I completely agree with you. They can't keep me down in the hospital. The new trick though is to keep a saline IV restraint on you. It takes some guts to threaten to remove it. I ran into that one after my implant while waiting for the cardio to come by and "release" me. I told the nurse that I wanted it removed and she refused since she required an order to do it. I told her I would keep her out of trouble by removing it myself. She laughed and said "you wouldn't do that". You should have seen the look on her face when I started taking the tape off. She asked me to wait a minute while she checked, then came back and took it out.

Later when I was getting ready to leave she asked me if I would have really done it. I told her that I was actually in the process of doing it when she asked me to wait.

So I agree with getting active as soon as at all possible. That's why I have as much done as possible without anesthesia and sedatives. I'm even active on the operating table.

The point I was trying to make in my earlier response is the effect of the culture us oldy's were raised in. We grew up in fear and awe of the people in the white coats and changing them to green didn't make much difference.

Even doctors are subject to the culture. When then are in the hospital they are little puppies like very one else.

An interesting read is "How Doctors Think" by Jerome Groopman, MD . It sure exposes a lot of what's behind the medical culture without being excessively critical.

frank

Frank, oh, Frank, Redux

by donr - 2011-08-26 08:08:13

A lifetime ago, in a former life, I was on Okinawa, commanding the Army's ammo depot. I was in the hosp, under observation to rule out appendicitis, Bottle attached, of course. They finally decided I'd live & didn't have the appendix thingy. so the bottle was disconnected & I was to be released the next AM. Wife called me to tell me that there was a fire in the depot. I told her to come get me, I was going out there. Put on my clothes, ran out the door & some junior corpsman tried to stop me. I shoved him aside, yelled to an older guy behind him that there was a fire in the ammo depot & kept on running. Behind me I hear the young guy yelling at me "You can't do that!" The old guy yells back at him "You'll never stop him!"

Yep, there was a fire, OK, no one hurt except a dove flying past the front of the earth covered storage igloo when it burst open like a shotgun & belched fire, brimstone & whatever wasn't consumed in the flames. Found the bird lying on the ground, stark naked, but still alive.

Man, I'm glad I wasn't still connected to that bottle!

Don

Frank, Oh, Frank

by donr - 2011-08-26 08:08:43

I WAS connected to a bottle! But it was on a wheeled stand. I just put my slippers on, grabbed the IV stand & sailed out into the common area. This is an unusual design hosp - all the rooms are in a circle around the nurse's station, so I could walk circles around it - 150 ft per lap IIRC.

There I went, gown on backwards, flapping in the wind (Low velocity, believe me) broken field running among the various people like OJ Simpson, mooning everyone I passed. Took one lap before they corraled me & gave me a second gown to put on to stop the mooning part. They were happy as clams to see one of their charges out w/o being driven.

in theFWIW Dept, the man who gave me that advice was a cousin of Good Ol' HST himself & just as firey! Veteran of three wars & still as outspoken, opinionated & abrasive as a 12 inch mill bastard file! Drove himself to the hosp for his final hurrah, finally sucumbing to pneumonia. In the end, he was still right - he could no longer walk it off.

Don

Thanks

by dcombs - 2011-08-26 09:08:45

Thanks to all of you...good suggestions! Any more are welcome.

I am out-numbered

by donr - 2011-08-26 10:08:27

BUT... you must examine all the alternatives. No one, not even you, has even suggested my alternative as a possibility. It's the one that no one wants to face, like the elephant in the corner. No one wants to think it of "Their Dad."

I'll betcha that the idea of mental deterioration lurks in the back of the mind of all the medics you see - they just don't want to be so callous as to be the first to mention it.

Even jelly legs can be from poor muscle tone, which can come on very fast from inactivity.

A while ago, I rec'd some advice from a man in his early 90's, who had survived several bouts of pneumonia. His advice was simple - If ever you wind up in the hosp, get out of bed & walk - every opportunity you get. If you don't, at advanced age you will deteriorate very fast, develop pneumonia & die.

I kinda dismissed him till I wound up in the hosp for a week of tests just prior to getting my PM. About the second day, I noticed a significant change in my overall well-being. A diminishing of muscle tone, stamina & breathing. And I was still only 67. I was out of that bed in the blink of an eye, doing laps around the nurse's station. It's amazing how you can do a mile in a day in a hosp if you get out frequently.

Here, you are hearing from exceptional older people - people who are active, phsically and mentally. Well beyond what their peers are doing.

What do you "Kids" expect him to do? Do you encourage him to get off the couch & do "things," or do you suggest "Dad, you look like you need a nap." I know I am starting to get the "Nap" crap from my kids. To which I say "Nap? What's this nap crap. I don't need no stinking nap!" Then I go do what I want to do. (My apologies to Humphrey Bogart).

Erma Bombeck, a lifetime ago, wrote an article about the relationship between parents & children & how it changes when the parents get older - suddenly the "Kids" (at age 62) treat the parents as children & the parents become dependent & take on the attitudes of children.

Yours in curmudgeonry,

Don

Good one

by ElectricFrank - 2011-08-27 02:08:43

Don
I'm beginning to wonder what was in your bottles. Did you have some kind of connection in the hospital. Mine were pain old saline.

Your ammo bunker story reminds me of the most stressing test worked on. Remember when they had the fire on the aircraft carrier (Hornet I think) and a bunch of sailors were killed when the ammo storage blew? They ran a series of tests here at China Lake to determine how much time they could give the firefighters before bailing out. So we had a bunker filled with a variety of war heads, bombs, and rockets that we instrumented for temperature. Jet fuel was sprayed on the works and ignited. Now we sat in a block house a short distance away and waited. My job was to keep the overlapping tape decks loaded to be sure and catch the final show. Just sitting there in the quiet waiting for the ground to shake with this horrendous explosion is a bit nerve wracking.

frank

Have you...

by donr - 2011-08-27 06:08:04

...rec'd any private msgs offering help? We seem to have hijacked your thread. Sorry, that doesn't happen very often here.

I had hoped to read some more, varied, posts by this time. Are you going to be able to get to any of the various Dr's next week? Sounds like you are being put off by the monitoring company. It would not hurt to call whoever the Dr. is who will get their report & force the issue. Your Dad needs help & the first thing he needs is for the physical, measurable parameters of his health to be addressed so that you can go to the intangible issues.

Good luck.

Don

Thanks, Don

by dcombs - 2011-08-27 09:08:33

Thanks - I have enjoyed your comments and stories! But back to my father...we have an appointment with his cardiologist Monday morning, and I will be going along to make sure his symptoms and questions are brought up. We will also ask the cardiologist about the monitor and whether we even called the right place. So hopefully we will get some answers then. I think you and Frank have made some good points. Dad was a busy professional, then a busy retired man helping others with handy man projects and substituting in his profession. Now he has trouble finding things to do, doesn't hear well (and has given up on hearing aids) and has trouble carrying on conversations because he speaks so slowly and can't think of words. He used to be a leader at his high school reunion, be the emcee, but he hasn't even wanted to go the last couple of years. He always played the guitar and sang, but hardly does that now. Never was much of a reader, doesn't do much on the computer except email. Does like to go shop and take care of his patio flowers, but sometimes too tired to do that. Maybe depressed, on top of other things? Doesn't get much exercise. Appetite not what it used to be. Seems to do ok with their bills and finances, though. Anyway, I will have a list to take to the doctor Monday!

Thanks, don

by ElectricFrank - 2011-08-28 01:08:19

I didn't realize how much we had gotten off the track on the original issue.

frank

Hard to watch

by ElectricFrank - 2011-08-28 01:08:43

It's hard to watch someone we love and who has been active and involved go down hill in later years.

One of the important things for him in handling the changes with aging is being flexible about life. I'm glad I put out a lot of energy learning it earlier in life. As active as I am, I still am very aware that I can't do a lot of the things at 81 I used to do. I really love exploring the back country in my Jeep, but I realize I don't have too many more years where that will be possible. But I can still put more time into photography, especially cataloging and and editing my large library of photos. And doing that let lets me relive some wonderful experiences. I've also come to terms with my own death which is inevitable one of these days and is part of living.

I mention all this because it is a way you can help your dad. You can work with him in ways that a doctor or counselor can't. In 1999 my wife experienced a major stroke, and we took over her rehab ourselves. One of the things I did was to watch for functions that were returning and find ways she could enjoy them. Later she told me how much that meant to her.

By the way, you might check with the docs about vitamin B12/folic acid shots. This is a problem that is showing up in seniors over 65. It seems that we stop making an enzyme that converts B12 into a form that can be absorbed in the intestines. I ran into this about 3 years ago and since my doc thought it was some new age idea. I found a way to get the shots and they made a big difference. Then a couple of years later my insurance company news letter informed me that they highly recommended the shots and would pay for them. Anyway the shortage of B12 has symptoms like your dads, which mimic the dementia of old age. A National Institute of Health web site lists some of the symptoms.

Symptoms from nerve damage caused by vitamin B12 deficiency that has been present for a longer time include:
* Confusion or change in mental status (dementia) in severe cases
* Depression
* Loss of balance
* Numbness and tingling of hands and feet

frank

Good Info!!

by donb - 2011-08-29 08:08:42

Thanks guys!! Good info for us old people. As I'm going to hit 80 this coming January, I'm going to have to get my butt in gear and get moving. Ya & Vitamin B-12 did wonders for me years ago so I should check that out again with (nurse) wife. donb

My dad has exactly the same problems

by leoncino - 2012-02-06 09:02:07

Hi
I was wondering what the outcome was for your dad.My dad has the same issues for the last 2 years.He feels like he wants to get out there and go and has always been very very actrive but not any more Since the pacemaker,he has heavy and fatigued legs can't enjoy life he is too busy trying to survive his leg issues. Been to many doc's a neurologists etc physio the works but nothing helps.
I will keep pursuing it for him as I hate to see him feel this way after being so active he also is 81....but he looks and acts like 61.
Jelly legs

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