Getting Zapped while working on the house

Hi all-

I am new to the site and as a regular home handyman; I have wondered if voltage from stray current could cause problems if you contact a wire. I ran across an article that scared me a little, this letter from Medtronic to a patient that said that if you get an electric shock you could cause your Heart Device to withhold threapy or deliver an unnecessary shock.

Here is the letter:
http://www.arrl.org/files/file/Technology/Pacemaker/EMC%20Worksite%20Letter.pdf

I am always working around the house and have been shocked from wiring while working in the past. I have a checkup in July, but am very concerned about this, has anyone received any advice from their doctor on this?

Cheers
-Tom

7 Comments

Limitations on living w/ PM/ICD's

by donr - 2012-05-22 06:05:40

Tom - as promised!

PM Limitations
Comment posted by donr on 2012-05-02 01:14.
OK, you asked for it - my world famous list of the REAL limitations on what we PM Hosts cannot do, culled from a plethora of experiences reported on this site. After you read this, you will be firmly convinced that I haven't a serious bone in my head. Also, you will realize that if I closed my jaw while writing this that I'd bite my tongue off. This is edited down from about 5 comments I've made in a matter of months.

Don

Every Newbie worries about what they can/cannot do. Well, I did also - 9 yrs ago - & since then have developed a list of limitations to explain PM's to the Newbie.

In practice, there are few limitations - we have to find out how we each react to potential threats to our PM's. BUT - there are some very real limitations - I've addressed them below.


For starters, EVERY speaker has a magnet in it. You need not worry about them, unless you grab a great big honkin' ole bass speaker & hug it to your chest. & then it may not affect you. General rule - just keep magnets away from your PM site - 6 inches will do. One woman here this week had a problem w/ a super magnet clutch on a whopping purse. It's not the SIZE of the magnet, it's the STRENGTH of it & super magnets are tough ittle suckers.

Read around in here & you will find out that we collectively lead pretty normal lives.

The day before I had my PM put in back in Feb 2003 I read the same little manual they gave you & choked! I was about to become an invalid! Oh, woe, is me! Got out of the hosp 2 days later (I had problems not related to the surgery that they wanted to ensure were stable) & wife drove me home. Stopped at Home Depot on the way & picked up a bunch of lumber for our house we were building. Ate lunch at the local Cracker Barrel & ran a few other errands. All the while, I was looking for Arnold Schwartzenegger - I felt so good I was ready to take on the World. Normally, I'd look for new - born babies for a start, but today I felt so good, I was ready for Ahnald!

Then reality set in - I temporarily could not drive; couldn't raise the elbow above the shoulder; couldn't lift more than 5 lbs; couldn't take a shower & get the scar wet. All those niggling little things that follow any surgery.

Well, harsh reality set in as I slowly figured out what was real & what was a great, big, CYA horse blanket for the Medtronics Co. Here's what I learned:

1) I can no longer work as a pneumatic jack hammer operator for a highway crew demolishing concrete all day. Besides, I'll bet you couldn't either cause you don't smoke smelly cigars or have a big belly that flops out over the handle of the Jack hammer.

2) Operating a chainsaw ALL DAY is also a no-no. As is operating a gas-powered weed eater. But, OTOH, why should any man (or ANY woman for that matter, regardless of age) want to do those things anyway???? The book said the ignition MIGHT interfere w/ the PM, or if you have the RATE RESPONSE function turned on the vibration MIGHT affect that. The ignition system DOES NOT affect my PM (Don't ask how I know) & I don't have the RR turned on. Besides, Who, in their right mind wants to do those things ALL DAY? Only Paul Bunyan, & you probably don't have a Big Blue Ox named "Babe." Also, Electric Frank, but he's another case - & he gave up part of the chainsaw work when he ran out of chains to saw & stuck to trees..

3) You cannot climb the Channel 5 TV tower & hug the antenna output - might affect the operation of the PM. Channel 1 is OK, however - IF you can find a channel 1 somewhere.

4) You should not enter the Thai National Kick-Boxing Championships. Short as those guys are, they can kick pretty high.

5) You should NOT run away, join the circus & become a member of the "Flying Walendas" trapeze artists.

5a) You should not run away & join the professional rodeo circuit as a Lady Bronc Buster, steer rider, bull dogger, or goat roper.

6) You should NOT take up Skeet or Trap shooting, using a 10 gage shotgun that you place against the shoulder where your PM is located. You can, however, if you use a pop gun that shoots a cork.

7) Do not take up African big game hunting using any rifle larger caliber than a US .22 rim fire.

8) You cannot get a job in a super magnet factory testing magnets that hold name tags on clothes at the site of your PM.

Also, EVERY speaker has a magnet in it. You need not worry about them, unless you grab a great big honkin' ole bass speaker & hug the magnet end to your chest. & then it may not affect you. General rule - just keep magnets away from your PM site - 6 inches will do.

Also, also, One woman here this week had a problem w/ a super magnet clutch on a whopping purse. It's not the SIZE of the magnet, it's the STRENGTH of it & super magnets are tough ittle suckers.


9) Not last, but not least, DO NOT to join the Marines w/ a view toward earning a spot on a rifle drill team. Throwing that M-14 rifle up into "Left Shoulder Arms" will hurt like Heck when it smacks the PM site.

10) You cannot swing from the dining room chandelier by the arm on the PM side while eating a banana w/ the other hand.

11) Just remembered this one while talking w/ my "Baby Sister," who is 65 this year. It is not recommended that you swim around in the tank at Sea World in Orlando where they keep the pelagic sharks (Tigers, great white, hammerhead, etc). When I asked Medtronics about doing that, they said they didn't know if it was safe or not. Those sharks in particular can sense weak electrical fields emitted by their prey & they had no idea if the PM fields were strong enough to attract them.

12) Do not fall in w/ a crowd of rowdy college students whose idea of fun is to crawl inside a BIG microwave oven & turn it on. After it fries your eyeballs like a pair of sunny side up eggs, it might fry your PM.

13) Power tools (including hair dryers) : I operate all sorts of corded & battery operated power tools - no effect on PM. I've operated all sorts of ELECTRIC hammer drills, breaking concrete - but they are relatively small & don't beat me up. I'd guess that the hair dryer falls into this category. On many occasions, I've leaned into a tool w/ its back end right against my sternum, inches from my PM - no effect.

14) Transformers: I have a large, green transformer box in my front yard that supplies electricity to my house. The input is about 13,000 volts & the output is 240 volts. Hence there are some pretty healthy electric & magnetic fields inside the box. I routinely sit on it while taking a break while working in the yard, & once, w/o thinking, I actually laid down across it on my chest w/o any ill effect!

Those are the REAL restrictions. All the rest are kinda nebulous. Given physical healing time - about 6 weeks, you can drive, do anything reasonable for a woman (or man) your age, & live a normal life.

If you read here long enough, you'll find out the things we all do & be amazed. You just have to creep up on them slowly to find out what affects YOUR PM.

I hunt deer & ducks - but limit fire arm use to .257 Roberts & 20 gage - not much recoil. I get near magnets all the time, but stay away from those that are right over my PM. I hammer, nail, do all sorts of construction at home & at daughter's houses. Less than a yr after getting my PM, I took an 18 mile hike w/ a bunch of teenagers - at night on rough terrain. PM did fine - I did not. tripped over a boulder & bruised a thigh muscle. Couldn't walk w/o crutches for a week. PM sneered at me for being a wimp & just kept on ticking, just like the Energizer Bunny!

To take tongue out of cheek - You have to stay away from MRI's unless you have a PM that is MRI compatible.

How tough is a PM & its leads? I took a Jeep Cherokee at 35 mph into the RIGHT shoulder 6 weeks after getting a new lead implanted. No effect on the PM system. Pretty well busted me up, however - 12 days in hosp.

Electric shocks

by donr - 2012-05-22 06:05:49

Tom: Well, I also just read the letter. Dunno how new you are to hosting a PM, but very new from your question.

The Medtronic letter is not half bad. It will make a blanket big enough to cover the posteriors of an entire herd of elephants - but what do you expect from a manufacturer? They have NO choice but to take that attitude.

If you have always been a home handyman, MY advice is - do exactly what you did before PM & you will be safe. I'm betting that Electric Frank will crawl out of his Arizona snake den sometime tonight & tell you essentially the same thing.

Here is MY experience w/ electrical issues since PM planting in Feb 2003:

1) I've taken 120 V AC shocks (By accident, I assure you) right hand to left hand (left hand to right hand when the polarity reversed ) w/ zero ill effect. I dutifully recorded the time of the event & next download looked for an anomoly - nothing at all.

2) I use every power tool known to mankind w/o ill effect. BTW: I violate the 6 inch rule all the time. These are all battery powered tools w/ heavily sparking brush/ commutator effects.

3) I use chainsaws (to cut trees, not chains) frequently w/o ill effect. Now - there's a caveat here. IF your PM has RR features, DON"T do it unless the RR is set ridiculously high to keep it from making your heart race.

4) I have (again inadvertently) lain across the top of a green transformer box in my front yard on my chest. The guts of the box have (I think) 13,000 V, AC & 240 V,AC present. No effect.

5) I've had exactly one interference incident since PM. It was about 2 weeks post op. For some cockamamie reason, I had to climb up into the rafters in my shop. As I passed between two ceiling joists, I almost passed out & fell off the ladder. I got down immediately, scared badly. What had happened was that the 240 V, 30 Amp cable feeding my water heater was conducting at that time. My PM passed but a very few inches from the cable. That put it into test mode temporarily. But, as they said in the letter - everythoing went back to normal as soon as I was away from it.

6) Take normal safety precautions you used to take - w/ one addition - DON'T work alone! Just in case!

7) We are all different in how sensitive we are to these things. There are people who cannot walk into Costco w/o their PM having fits in the TV dept. Some people have a cow passing between the yellow anti-theft poles in Home Depot. Neither of those affect me one iota.

8) You will have to learn for yourself how sensitive you & your PM are.

9) I assure you that the technical numbers on P 4 are meaningless to you - but they are very conservative - BIG safety factors are built into them.

Separately I'll send you my take on practical limitations for PM hosts.

Don

Don said it all

by ElectricFrank - 2012-05-23 02:05:56

I'm an electronic engineer and handyman. I work around all sorts of stuff. It's been a long time since I felt a good jolt, but don't particularly worry about it.

One thing I would suggest though is to try to avoid situations where you might get across 120/240V wiring. This has nothing to do with the pacer. Back in the days when I used to regularly feel the Wrath of Westinghouse, it was in older houses with 15A fused circuits. If I was jolted and jumped I might short the hot to neutral and blow a fuse. They let go so fast that only a small spark happened. With the same circuit today only a 15A circuit breaker they are much slower responding. I thing I saw somewhere that a sudden dead short on a 20A outlet circuit could result in a surge of 50-100A. That's enough to blow hot copper in an eye.

By the way, Don got it wrong. I'm in Calif now. While in Arizona I had to put up with summer lightning storms. Even there with the power of lightning there's no concern about the pacemaker. Dead bodies don't care. LOL

best,

frank

I stand corrected on where Frank lives

by donr - 2012-05-23 07:05:26

CA - AZ - in that part of the US of A, it makes no difference to the flora & fauna. I've been to both places, I've learned & affirm the facts about the F & F being identical! I opened a broom closet door in the CA location & was eyeball to multi-eyeball w/ the biggest Black Widow spider I've ever seen. It had an abdomen the size of a basketball & was sucking the life out of a Maine Coon housecat. It told me to please shut the door - it liked privacy while it ate.

The only thing between the two locations is a state line drawn on a map & we all know that there isn't even a line painted on the road to mark that!

Don

Desert Differences

by donr - 2012-05-24 01:05:07

Frank, I must be colorblind - they both looked the same to me! Yes, they were dry. I woke up in the morning & someone else thought I had fallen out of a box of prunes. They had to re-hydrate me before I could talk.

Don

Needs more correction

by ElectricFrank - 2012-05-24 01:05:14

Don,
I can be scary to encounter one of smaller specimens of the Blake Widow like you did. The fully grown ones are more easily noticed.

The Colorado River is the the dividing line between the Calif and Ariz deserts. There is a definite change in foliage on either side. Arizona is a "green" desert with the giant Saguaro Cactus. Summer humidity is much higher in July-Sept due to the Monsoon rains. Calif is a "brown": desert with Sage and sand the order of the day. Calif rarely gets the monsoons. Swamp Coolers are pretty much useless in AZ, but work great in the Calif desert. Of course for a Georgia boy either one seems dry.

And of course the Calif desert is noted for it's Electric Frank creatures.

frank

Now you are on to me

by ElectricFrank - 2012-05-25 03:05:26

My favorite place to camp is about 4 miles off the main road on a rough old trail in the middle of the barren brown desert. At night it's dead quiet. Even a jack rabbit walking around outside the trailer sounds like a monster.

My favorite times are spring and fall when the daytime temperature is in the mid 80-90's. Night time is around 70. And yes I use more water for drinking than I do for showering. I usually spend about 4 days alone just enjoying it.

frank

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