Anyone else concerned about the healthcare bill?

I don't mean to bring up a sore subject, but I'm interested to see what other people are feeling regarding the healthcare legislation that's being crammed through congress right now. I was watching Glenn Beck today and he mentioned that in the bill is a tax on medical device manufacturers. That would include pacemakers and IUDs! I'm really concerned that this bill will wind up killing thousands or millions of people just so "the government can cut costs". I'm not trying to scare anyone but I'm just looking at the reality of the impact this will have on EVERYONE and not just those of us with pacemakers, too.

I just googled the tax on medical devices and found this article.

http://www.medicaldevices.org/public/

Please vent with me if you're concerned. Also, the Senate is scheduled to vote on the bill this Saturday, 11/21/09. Please pray that it does NOT pass.

30 Comments

:)

by DC Pacer - 2009-11-20 02:11:22

Smitty, the last part of your post is one of the lists I love the most...

DC Pacer

Obamacare

by SMITTY - 2009-11-20 02:11:25

I don't understand all the concern about Obamacare. If you will listen closely we are being told it has something for everybody and that the cost will be taken care of by somebody. I do think they are being a little vague about who "somebody" is, but I'm not smart like them and they know it so they don't bother to give me any details.

Now I know some of you are concerned about the increase to our deficit that will come from Obamacare. Don't worry about that. The Chinese government is financing the existing deficit and I'm sure they will not mind pitching in a few more trillion to see that we all have a health care program.

The clincher is the same people will be taking care of our healthcare program that have been overseers of the programs listed below. Take a look at them and tell me if you really think there is anything to be concerned about.

The U.S. Post Service was established in 1775. After 234 years to get it right it is broke.

Social Security was established in 1935. After 74 years to get it right it is broke.

Fannie Mae was established in 1938. After 71 years to get it right it is broke.

Medicare and Medicaid were established in 1965. After 44 years to get it right they are broke.

Freddie Mac was established in 1970. After 39 years to get it right it is broke.

Have a good day.

Smitty

Let's Be Real

by mrag - 2009-11-20 04:11:37

First off-Smitty. Nice list. You left out the military who seem to be doing great after more than 200 years-I mean who else can buy $600 toilet seats? I KNOW! The executives OUR congress people have hired to run Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae, Social Security and Medicare. "We" have hired our own jerks who have been so inept, they've hired their jerks for us and we keep re electing them so they can do it all over again! Eventually they leave government and then run a company on Wall Street which also fails, but still pays them a $60,000,000 ANNUAL BONUS. Finally, they come back as Secretary of the Treasury or something so they get good medical benefits. Did I miss anything there?

Alright, ranting aside. Can we agree that: Health care in the US costs TOO much and even so, does NOT get equal results? Problem identified. Solution is.....

I'd give you the answer, but as I'm not currently under a $5,000 a day consulting contract, I really can't say anything right now.

(to Vilbilbrey-just where did our $12 TRILLION dollar debt come from? Hint, think about the last 9 years)

What's the alternative

by mrag - 2009-11-20 04:11:56

"AARP's November 2009 "Bulletin" has an interesting graph on page 34. It reads "Cost-annual per capita health care spending" Japan $2561, Canada $3595, Germany $3588, Great Britain $2992 and the US...$7290! And for "results:" Preventable deaths per 100,000: Japan 71, Canada 77....oh hell, US is tops again at 110!"

Look at our costs and then our "results." We pay a lot more and get back a lot less-something has got to be done and now. My issue is with the buffoons "we" elected to do anything that would actually work.

I live in the Northeast, it's flu season right now. I haven't had my Swine Flu shot as my doctor doesn't have the vaccine and doesn't know when he's getting any. Obama claimed swine flu a "national emergency."

We need to move forward now even if 'imperfect.' Heck, that's what usually happens anyway, Congress sits on their asses for years, passes a
law" that makes no sense, then the Supreme's try and interpret what Congress spent a year trying to write down the first time. It's an endless circle jerk. But we've got to start-look at how good that strategy worked in Iraq.

Obamacare

by SMITTY - 2009-11-20 06:11:27

Mrag,

I agree that healthcare is expensive, but how much too expensive, I don't know. I was not making any attempt to list all of the areas in which our government has thrown good money after bad and said it was necessary. Those government entities I listed came from an e-mail I have received several times. The e-mail contained a list much longer and I pared it down to those few.

I don't try to influence anyone into thinking the way I do about Obamacare for a couple of reasons. I don't think I can quote numbers, facts or fiction that would make one iota of difference in the way a person thinks about Obamacare. I know my only recourse is to never vote for a politician that supports Obamacare by word or by deed. I will be sure any public office holder for which I might vote knows my feelings. That's all I can do.

If I have offended anyone, I was not trying to be offensive. But that does mean you think different from what I do about Obamacare and all I was trying to do was ridicule it with a little sarcasm.

Smitty

Don't let the Bush and Palin people scare you

by ted - 2009-11-20 06:11:29

I think that we ought to leave politics out of this wonderful group. This stuff is divisive and has no place here. The Rush Limbaugh, and George Bush, and Sarah Palin supporters are trying to scare everyone into believing that the sky will fall in if we provide health care for all Americans. They want to let you believe that you will not be allowed to have a pacemaker and that when you get old you will not get medical help and will be exterminated.
Please don't listen to the same people to destroyed our country. Those of you who are billionaires can provide for your medical care. Those of us who just make a living need universal medical coverage so every human being can have a chance for a healthy life. Having said this, I hope that we keep religion and politics out of this group.

no politics zone

by Tracey_E - 2009-11-20 06:11:47

It's nearly impossible to vent without it getting nasty. If you are against the bill, the best thing you can do today is get on the phone and email and blast your Senator, or if it passes pray it gets stuck in negotiations between the House and Senate versions.

mrag, if it passes our costs are about to skyrocket. You ain't seen nuthin yet, as the saying goes.

Alternatives? A less radical approach that addresses tort reform, fixing the problems with Medicaid, Medicare and VA systems, bailing out emergency rooms that are about to go under from the strain on their system, a backup plan for the uninsured/uninsurable. They aren't trying to fix ANY of that in this bill except the last. The system has flaws that need repaired but they're throwing away the baby with the bathwater by rushing through a poorly thought out bill that will completely revamp a system that's basically working.

They're trying to make what should be the backup plan for the uninsurable into the new plan for everyone. 85% of Americans have health care they're happy with. Businesses are going to lose the tax deduction for insurance premiums. So they say our private plans aren't going to change if we're happy with what we have and want to keep it, but what business can afford it if it's not deductible? None, esp considering we're all going to be paying for the new system, so we're all going to be forced to this plan, like it or not.

I'm with you

by rvrs7081 - 2009-11-20 07:11:17

I'm scared to death of what our great governement is doing. Sure, it may be time to make changes. But I feel that when the time comes for us to get new pacemakers, they can refuse. I did work for an HMO way back and there were idiots without medical knowledge except for a medical dictionary in front of them, approving and denying medical treatments. they didn't even have high school diplomas. One two year old was denied treatment after a dog attacked his face. not emergency enough. Seems like a lot is being done to eliminate the "throw away" generation. As to other countries with their medical, have you spoken to anyone in England or Canada? How long do they have to wait for their quality care ?

Hea;thcare

by J.B. - 2009-11-20 09:11:37

Ted, I hate to disappoint you, but I have never listened to Limbaugh. The only times I have heard Palin say anything was on the cable news programs when they had snippets of her speeches. As for Bush, when has he said anything about anything since he left the Whitehouse.

You obviously are a very strong Obama supporter and praise him and his promises whenever possible. Then you want people with opposing views to shut up. Is that called democracy at work? In spite of having a majority in both houses of congress are you Democrats beginning to realize that most Americans object to the idea of having a government run healthcare system and Obama's big plans may be on the way down the tube?

health reform

by thomast - 2009-11-20 10:11:45

This is not a health reform bill, it is a bill to control every event in our lives. If it passes, our insurance costs will hit the roof. AARP sold out their members, if it passes medicare advantage plans will be dropped, so seniors will have to take medigape policies, guess who sells them, you guessed right AARP does.So that is why they sold out their members and endorsed the bill. I have a cousin that lives in BC, if she needs any medical attention in a hurry, she comes to the U.S.

Thomas

I agree with all except mrag

by vbilbrey - 2009-11-20 11:11:21

Thank you all for your comments. Believe me I called the house representatives to demand a vote of NO, millions of Americans went to DC to voice thier oppositoin on 9/12/09 and then thousands went up there on a couple day notice earlier this month to voice their opposition-storming the offices-and the House STILL voted for the bill! I think that no matter what we do they don't care and will do EVERYTHING to get this thing passed! If you look at my link that I included in my original message at the very bottom of the "Healthcare Passes Healthcare Reform Bill" article it tells you what is happening. Obama is telling his democrats "If you think the Republicans are not going to go after you if you vote no, think again." Sad thing is, he's right. And he's using it to his advantage. That's what they are all doing up there. Working to their own advantage and if going through the front door doesn't work, then they will go to the back door or through a window, or through the roof, or worst case scenario, dig under the house and up the foundation to accomplish their agenda. And their agenda is to destroy America and create a worldly government. I've been doing a lot of research, listened to Beck and have been involved in the TEA party movement (going to meetings, etc.) to keep informed of what all is happening. Here is another link I found regarding the global government. http://www.jeremiahproject.com/newworldorder/

These are sad times. But we're not even feeling the impact yet. Our national debt of over $12 Trillion is unbelievable and soon America will CRASH. Our dollar will be worthless. We are headed to some severely bad times and really, I don't know that we can do anything about it since the trend of spend spend spend started YEARS ago and the goal of a worldly government united started YEARS ago it's just that now we are finally seeing it for what it is. It's a train rolling through it's last leg and it's out of control. If we would have realized what was happening twenty years ago we could have stopped this train wreck then, but now it's gone on for so long that it seems to be unstoppable. That's the funny thing about highnsight (not sure if I spelled that right). I think the most we can do is pray that God will guide us through these times and strenghthen our faith in Him. Who can we turn to other than Jesus Christ?

You all have a good day.

Ginny

We Can All Agree ~ ~ $ $ $ $ $$ $

by Carolyn65 - 2009-11-20 11:11:44

In history classes when I was in school many moons ago, we were taught and taught (drilled) about the ol' Russia. Over my years on this beautiful earth, I have seen our "powers to be" make so many decisions which remind me of the dictator establishment in Russia. A lot of our initial rights have been dissolved.

We, the taxpayers, the voters of the US of A can all agree on one thing ~ no matter what the health care situation in the now and future ~ it will cost all of us a bundle, just some people more than others. The people who need life saving devices will be charged more, as well as the elderly. God Bless all of us.

The louder and squeakier WE get, the more will be done for us. The elderly, if in unison, could out vote, out speak, out call. Contact your Congress person, and on & on. Plus, lest us NOT forget, the PM Club has over 10,000 members now!

Do what you can in writing and calling anyone you know who is a friend of Pres. Obama & his $taff.

Have a great day & a great Thanksgiving week to all who have the Thanksgiving holidays.
Carolyn G. in TEXAS ( : GO UT HORNS vs. Kansas tomorrow on 11/21 @ 7:00 p. m. Central time.

Right wing conservatives don't have a monopoly on common sense

by ted - 2009-11-21 06:11:01

JB and vbilbrey: Why do you folks suffer from the delusion that you right wingers have a monopoly on wisdom, logic, or common sense? You speak of "freedom" but you want to ridicule and stifle anyone who disagrees with you. You lost the election, so let it go. You and your millionaire wannabees will have another chance to ruin this country again in 2012. No response is necessary. The point I am trying to make is that your political rantings are out of line in this non-political group.

Common Sense

by J.B. - 2009-11-21 09:11:38

Ted wrote "Right wing conservatives don't have a monopoly on common sense" Of course he is correct, but there is no shortage of it among conservatives either. Which is more than I can say for most liberals that think the government can provide free lunches for everyone.

Not about losing the election

by vbilbrey - 2009-11-21 10:11:03

I just have one more comment and then I'll leave it alone (unless Ted has another idiotic comment). It's not about "losing" the election. Because it's not just Obama that's the problem. This problem of spending our money on pork projects and social programs started WAY before Obama. The whole problem started in the 1960's with Cloward & Piven. They were the original believers of redistribution of wealth. Their goal was to get rid of poverty by establishing a guaranteed income for all. Please see the following two links for more info.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloward%E2%80%93Piven_strategy).

http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/02/the_clowardpiven_strategy_of_e.html

Universal Healthcare

by vbilbrey - 2009-11-21 12:11:04

Ted,

Do you realize that universal healthcare won't be so universal? There will be such an overload on the system (which, by the way is a system of prevention and routine check ups, per Obama, and NOT a system of medical care by specialized doctors) that doctors (or the govt.) will have to weed out the people that are not worth saving and those who are worth saving. The fact that they are attempting to shove EVERYONE onto a medical plan means that they will have less time to interact with each patient on an individual basis since the ratio of patients to doctors will increase greatly. Thus, the quality of care will go down. Also if we don't have specialized care (notice you NEVER hear specialized care mentioned) that means we won't have cardiologists or any other type of specialized medicine. Therefore if you go to a doctor for a heart check up what guarantees do you have that the doctor is experienced with your ailment? They won't be! That's the whole issue. And it's not that anyone is a Palin or a Rush or a Bush supporter that opposes the plan. It's those of us that think critically of the issue at hand and use common sense and logic, cause and effect.... And this is a subject that should be brought on here because it impacts ALL of us on this web site. And apparently people wanted or needed to discuss it since there have been twelve comments on this already within one day (one of them mine but still). So to say to leave it off this site is just ignorant. And I don't care what you think, but religion definitely belongs here as well. If you don't believe in God then fine, you're entitled to your beliefs, but don't come on here telling us not to discuss reglion just because you don't want to hear it.

Thanks.

Hyperbole anyone?

by jm48 - 2009-11-21 12:11:10

I have to say I'm glad I don't live south of the border these days (I live in Canada eh?). It must really smell bad down there with all the B.S. flying around in this healthcare debate. I can tell you this vbilbrey: your imagined fears do not match my reality. I pay for my healthcare through my taxes, and that's how I like it. I was unemployed when I needed my pacer, but it didn't matter, I got it anyway and money was NEVER a factor. Now I'm working and paying taxes and helping out the next person who comes along and needs a pacer, or transplant or anything. What's all this about no specialized care? We have specialists. Not only do we have them, anyone who needs one can see one. You probably see a cardiologist and an EP. Well guess what, so do I. What about choice you ask? Yes I have choice. I choose my physician. I am seeing the cardiologist and EP of MY choosing.

Let me offer my outsider's perspective here. The arguments I see against the health care bill are overwhelmingly outrageous exaggerations and many border on outright fantasy. Come back down to earth guys, the sky is not falling. Let's get rational for a minute. There are countless examples of functioning publicly funded healthcare systems in free-market democratic countries around the world. There is no denying that such systems work without being the harbingers of communist dictatorship. The transformation that the healthcare bill will usher in is incredibly tame in comparison to the transformation that took place when Canada adopted a fully public system. I can tell you, and you'll probably agree, the world did not end. It's been 40 years and we're still waiting for the communist takeover you're all so worried about. We still have a democratic government, rabid conservatives, stock exchanges, McDonalds and all the trappings of free-market capitalism. What Obama is trying to do has been done many times over, and in much more radical fashion. It's not revolutionary, its about damn time!

Jesse

...no more glen beck please!

by jm48 - 2009-11-21 12:11:19

..and please stop getting your information from glen beck. By Fox's own admission his show is not a news show and from what I've seen of him, he must have some untreated psychiatric problems. (namely some serious paranoia)

Jesse

Thanks, Jessie

by ted - 2009-11-22 06:11:30

Thanks for setting things straight Jessie. The billionaire Wall Street and corporate establishment that controls this country has survived as long as it has by instiling fear of change into the hearts and minds of the little peope who make up the vast majority of the population. How else can a small wealthy minority control a nation? Every civilized country but ours has a health care system for its citizens and communists haven't taken over yet. The word "Socialism" is a scare word used by the wealthy minority to keep the working people of this country in line and to not complain about their poverty. If we want to change things, the Glenn Beck and Bush-Cheney syncophants will call us "idiots". Lets all stop the political propaganda in this group and get back to discussing pacemakers.

What's That Ted

by Bill-2 - 2009-11-22 06:11:50

Ted I hope you mind if I laugh. You say stop all this political propaganda when you are the only one that has seen fit to post THREE comments so you can continue to give us your thoughts even though they are so left headed it is sickening.

Who will have the last word here?

by ted - 2009-11-23 04:11:57

Since you right wing conservatives started this conversation with a request that we pray to God to defeat the healthcare legislation, shouldn't us athiests and left-wing commies and idiots and dummies get the last word?

Bill-2 gets the last word

by ted - 2009-11-23 05:11:30

Ok, Bill-2, you can have the last word, But as a man of the cloth whose profile says that you are here "to help the needy" can't you find it in your heart to help those who cannot afford decent medical care and also, could you promise not to ridicule or belittle those who disagree with you and categorize their honest opinions as "BS"

Question for bill

by jm48 - 2009-11-23 07:11:13

Can I ask a question? When you hear the words "Socialized Medicine", what do you think of? Now, if you realize that for the rest of the developed world Socialized Medicine is a part of daily life, does that change anything?


I'll start. When I hear those words the first thought I have is gratitude. If anyone wants me to elaborate on why just ask, I'd be only too happy to do so.

NO LAST WORD

by Bill-2 - 2009-11-23 09:11:21

No! We have had too much of your BS crammed down our throats already.

Wow...

by vbilbrey - 2009-11-23 09:11:36

Wow, all I originally asked was what other people thought of the healthcare bill in regards to the tax on medical devices. I was hoping for a cordial exchange of opinions and that's it. But when Ted came on here lecturing us what to and what not to post it became personal. Ted needs to let people express their views freely. Maybe I am wrong on some of my issues, but those are my honest concerns. And Ted needs to respect mine and everyone else's. And he certainly NEEDS to respect my belief in God even though he doesn't believe. And I don't want to turn this into a religious debate, but I will NOT deny God the respect He deserves just because a non-believer has a cow about it. It's time Christians stand up for our beliefs and not let ANYONE walk all over them and tell them what we can and can't do. Because that is how we've gotten so far left in this country to begin with.

Crazy

by jm48 - 2009-11-24 01:11:36

And now its a religious flame war. Hopeless. I'm glad none of this affects me.

Listen vbilbrey, by the looks of it the bill will pass. You'll keep your insurance, eveyone who has none will have an option. Your country will remain intact. The communists will NOT take over. You can relax. There will be plenty of time to quarrel over the details of implementation...we do it every election. (That's right, we've had public healthcare for over 40 years and we STILL have elections).

Jesse

Sorry, Mr. vbilbrey

by ted - 2009-11-24 03:11:46

Let's not start lying now. When you posted your first comment you were not really interested in anyone's opinion. You referred to comments by Glenn Beck and asked us to pray that the healthcare bill wouldn't pass. I guess that because I said that you were out of line, I am now a communist, heathen, non-christian and should be exiled from our country. I happen to be a decorated veteran of the Korean War whose 1st Marine Division landed at Inchon and fought the retreat from the Chosin reservour. This is not a Christian newsgroup. We are people of many races, religions, and colors from all over the world. There is no need to get God involved in your right wing political agenda. God represents the good in all people. Please don't try to turn God into a Republican.

So now those who dsagree are not sensjble

by ted - 2009-11-24 06:11:13

J.B.: Can' t you guys express a viewpoint without calling names and demeaning those whose views differ from yours? Do us liberals call you "rednecks" or "hillbillies" or "good ol boys" or "crackers" or "racists" just because you are living in the past? When you keep using the term "Obamacare" it shows who you voted for and that you don't get it that Bush-Cheney and McCain-Palin are over with. Obama doesn't need your money or my money. Why don't you sore losers stop calling other decent people stupid and lets get on with the business of the pacemaker club.

More Reasons To Oppose Obama Care

by J.B. - 2009-11-24 09:11:34

Those of you that consider yourselves a conservative, or just sensible, you may want to take a look at the what is said on this site -

www.examiner.com/x-7462-Atlanta-Faith--Family-Examiner~y2009m7d31-Health-Care-Nightmare--Part-two

For you Liberals, don't bother. It would be a waste of your time since all of you are afflicted with poor vision can't see past Obama's next propaganda message. It might make you sick to read the cold hard facts.

Ted, I read your comment to Bill about why does a man of the cloth not want to help someone get healthcare coverage. He may be like me and that is personally I don't care if they get healthcare coverage, I just don't want to help pay for it. I have a plate full paying for my own needs and I don't need Obama taking money from my pocket and passing it to God only knows who.

No More Name Calling

by J.B. - 2009-11-25 12:11:33

I'm sorry Ted, I didn't know that calling you a Liberal was calling you a bad name. I thought you folks were proud of that name.

As for you; by virtue of the fact that you say you haven't called us "rednecks" or "hillbillies" or "good ol boys" or "crackers" or "racists" tells me that is what you think we are. Just like me not calling you one of Obama's pimps. But I haven't called you that.

As for living in the past, you lose me there. I'm very much aware of the present and I don't like what I see and if that steps on your toes so be it. But I can see that in your eyes it is not acceptable to disagree with what is going on it Washington.

As for me calling it Obamacare, since it is apparently offensive to you, I'll refrain from that name in the future and start calling it the Obama Monstrosity For A Health Care Program. Surely you will admit that I have the right to not like that thing.

You know you're wired when...

You get your device tuned-up for hot dates.

Member Quotes

I'm 35 and got my pacemaker a little over a year ago. It definitely is not a burden to me. In fact, I have more energy (which my husband enjoys), can do more things with my kids and have weight because of having the energy.