EMP's and ICD's

Does anybody know how an Electromagnetic pulse would affect a person with an ICD. I am scheduled for an implant on November 01,2017 and am getting cold feet based on the increased risk that North Korea has the ability and the motive to set off an EMP.

My ejection fraction rate is 30-35% but I feel okay when I excersise.  I also have a sinus bunble block and have gone into A-fib a couple of times which really weakens my heart.

I read somebody's comment who said an EMP would cause the ICD to" heat up and boil your heart."

Scary!   I do not know what to think.  Should I call the manufacture, my Doctor?

I would appreciate any comments.

 

Nine Lives

 

 


9 Comments

risks

by The real Patch - 2017-10-09 17:02:20

more people die from heart disease every year than will ever be killed by EMP. Every so often we have one or two of the fringe lunatics stop by and entertain us with nonsense and that crap just never seems to die.

I am paced 100% in both ventricles, my EF is hovering between 15 and 20 on a good day. I have end stage heart failure, cardiomyopathy, Cornoary artery disease, mitral valve prolapse and stenosis, Enjoy nearly every arrhythmia known and am I afraid of EMP? No, but I am afraid of my wife and refrigerator magnets.

Rest assured, if the US does get into a war with NK you'll have far more to worry about than EM pulses. However if you really want protection, for the low low price of $159.99 (US) I sell protective aluminum helmets that will deflect those magnetic pulses.

Get the ICD, you're at much higher risk of dying if you don't

Aluminum Helmut?

by Nine Lives - 2017-10-09 17:11:51

What good would it do?

What good would it do...

by IAN MC - 2017-10-09 18:14:06

Buy an aluminium helmet from Patch and you would never have to worry again about Kim Jong Un. I wear one all the time ...so far, so good !

Ian

It's cheaper to go to...

by donr - 2017-10-09 22:18:08


...your local super market & buy an aluminun collander.  Works just as well as patch's helmet..  I swiped my wife's collander.  She borrows it back when she wants to make spaghetti.  Unfortunately, she doesn't wash it very well & returns it sticky.  There is also an advantage to that - I don't need to use Wildroot Cream Oil (Charlie) for a while.

Now, to be realistic: From a Google Wikipedia article I found this:"

"On small electronics:

An EMP has a smaller effect, the shorter the length of an electrical conductor; though other factors affect the vulnerability of electronics as well, so there is no one cutoff length that determines whether some piece of equipment will survive. However, small electronic devices, such as wristwatches and cell phones, would most likely withstand an EMP.   (To be academically honest, I copied its footnote for Patch & Ian.)  Report Meta-R-320: "The Early-Time (E1) High-Altitude Electromagnetic Pulse (HEMP) and Its Impact on the U.S. Power Grid" January 2010. Written by Metatech Corporation for Oak Ridge National Laboratory. Appendix: E1 HEMP Myths."

Uncle Sam's Army had an EMP test facility near Woodbridge, Virginia - a suburb of Washington, DC about 20 miles south of the city.  I recaled that they actually tested a PM there in the early 90's.  Here's a survivalist's report on it:  

"Abstract : The U.S. Army Harry Diamond Laboratories’ (HDL’s) Woodbridge Research Facility (WRF) has conducted an investigation into the effects of electromagnetic pulse (EMP) on medical electronics. This report specifically documents the findings on the effects of WRF’s Army EMP Simulator Operations (AESOP) on cardiac pacemakers (CPMs). Empirical data are furnished and compared to the results of two independent analytical studies. The studies support the conclusion that damage to CPMs that might be located near the WRF boundaries is not likely. Furthermore, any upset in a CPM’s operation is considered unlikely and inconsequential to the health of the CPM wearer. Cardiac pacemakers (CPMs) have experienced significant technological advancements over the last decade, evolving from simple and bulky pulse generators to the small and sophisticated computerized units implanted today. With the implementation of sensitive digital electronics in modern pacemaker designs, concerns have been expressed for the possibility of an increased sensitivity of CPMs to electromagnetic interference (EMI). To some extent these concerns have abated to the increased awareness of the EMI problem by the manufacturers, as evident in better peacemaker designs and the decline in reported malfunctions due to EMI." 

Considering the extreme shielding they put on the PM & its leads, I'd say that were we to survive the rest of the blast's effdects, our PM's would probably make it through.

 

If you need a good nap, here's the Google reference that takes you to the 40 page snoozer of a technical report on the Army's testing of PM's. 

"The Effects of Electromagnetic Pulse (EMP) on Cardiac Pacemakers

www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a242990.pdf"

Donr

And don't forget that...

by donr - 2017-10-10 09:39:30


...every answer from a manufacturer will be heavily parsed by their general counsel - whose sole purpose in life is to protect their wallet.

A lifetime ago, I asked Medtronics if it was safe to swim off-shore in the Hawaiian islands on one of those "Swim with the Dolphins" adventures.  The problem I postulated was that pelagic sharks (Great White, Blue, Tger, Hammerhead) track & detect prey by sensing electric fields - PM's must generate some electric field, however weak.  Ditto for fishy prey.

Fortunately I lucked into an electrical engineer w/ my phone call & I got a pretty decent answer, in the form of a discussion.

His answer was as follows (Paraphrased):  Good grief, man - we haven't the foggiest idea.  No one has ever asked that question before.  No one here has ever thought about it to do any research on it.  Would you like to do the first research project & write a report for us?  Unfortnately we cannot fund you. We decided that If I chose to do so that it would be at my own risk. I'd be entering uncharted scientific waters (Pun intended).

So, I went in the water - along w/ all the rest of my family - kids, grandkids, et al.   I didn't last very long because my swimming was too rusty for open ocean waters.  As I was thrashing my way back to the rubber boat I was attacked by three Great Whites.  Lost my right leg just below the knee.  Now I have a wooden leg.  All my friends say they now know a guy w/ a wooden leg named Don, but he refuses to tell us the name of his other leg.

Donr

Don't be a sucker for internet craziness

by Gotrhythm - 2017-10-10 15:45:26

Donr and his smart-mouth pals are teasing you. 

Your doctor thinks you are in danger, not from the North Koreans, but from A-fib. An ICD could lengthen your life.

An EMP attack might happen someday. Or it might not happen at all. The danger from the A-fib is real and it is happening now.

A scary thing that might happen someday or a scary, very real problem that you do have today. HMM. Which one should you deal with first?

Listen to your doctor.

And if you do get an ICD, don't listen to Donr. A colander is worthless. Too many holes. Put your faith in aluminum foil-backed duct tape. In fact, buy stock. In the event of EMP attack, a lot of people will need it. Okay, now I'm teasing you. :-)

First of All

by Grateful Heart - 2017-10-10 21:53:46

You have "Nine Lives" so you don't need to worry. 

I have a Bi-Vent AICD.  At almost 9 years old now, mine is a dinosaur.  Your device will be much more updated.  In the meantime, I'm gonna buy one of Patch's aluminum helmets, Don's collander sounds like it might leak.

Grateful Heart 

GH & Rhythm...You ever...

by donr - 2017-10-10 23:05:22

...try to get that mastic that's on the back of Aluminum foil duct tape out of yur hair?  Worse than bubble gum.  I tried it before I switched to callandors.  Took two months for my hair to grow out enough to even get a pair of thin scissors under it to cut my hair to get the tape off.  meanwhile I wqalked around with that stupid tap wrapped around my head like a turban,  All sorts of people came up & asked me if I was a Sikh & wanted to see my dagger. A bunch of wiseacres asked me if I had a "Daddy Warbucks" or if I was the son of Punjab.  At least the aluminum didn't rust after I took a shower.  probably the worst part was getting aT the fungus on my scalp from all the water that got under there & didn't dry.

Donr

Electr Magnetic Puls and ICD's

by Nine Lives - 2017-10-11 12:02:38

After reading the above comments and other comments from people on this forum about palpitations,sleepless nights etc. I decided to cancel my implant procedure since I am a borderline case in terms of the cardioligst protocol guidlines as to who should get an ICD.

 

Instead my Doctor suggest that I get a Muga radioactive scan that is more accurate than an Echocardiogram.to see what my egection fraction rate really is and then decide if an ICD is for me.

In the meantime I am building farraday cages for all my electronic stuff and grounding my metal pole barn. Kim Jong Un foud out about our Army's decpitation plan to wipe out him and his cronies and he is not a happy camper! (Read todays Wall Street Journal)

I am peparing for the worst and hoping for the best and I sugest you all do the same.

Sincerely

Nine lives

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