EMI measurement

my manual from Biotronik speaks to electro magnetic interference and care to avoid.  Airport scanners both walk through and hand held and the chain saw???  Does anyone have any experience with quality EMI measurement devices that might be worth using to measure the amount of EMI present?


4 Comments

EMI

by Graham M - 2020-01-15 15:35:43

I think there may be a lot of nonsense spoken about EMI.  I work in a laboratory that has 4 electron microscopes, one of which I use regularly.  These use large electromagnets as lenses and I haven't had any problems. My PM is built to withstand a MRI scan, so I don't worry too much about it.

Graham

Please read answer to post about VR (above)

by Gotrhythm - 2020-01-15 17:11:32

No danger in normal life.

Now that you hopefully are feeling better, get out and enjoy your liffe without worrying about dangers to your pacemaker.

EMI

by AgentX86 - 2020-01-15 23:55:10

Any measurement tools sold the normal public for these sorts of things are completely useless and sold only to the paranoid (lotsa hype no hat). The problem with pacemakers and EMI isn't radio waves, generated by cell phones, WiFi or Bluetooth sorts of widgets, rather high AC magnetic fields. pacemakers and leads are well sheilded from e-fields from these devices but cannot be shielded from magnetic fields.  High intensity moving magnetic fields can induce a current in the leads, causing pacemakers to "over sense", thus fail to pace when needed.  If you're not dependent, you'll likely not even notice it.  If you are dependent, it could get a lot more difficult.  Note that this refers to moving AC fields only, like large AC motors, welders, and power substations. Chain saws aren't likely to be a problem, however security wands may indeed cause problems.  Ask them to wand you below the waist only.  Show your card, if necessary.  The walk through magnetic sensors can be a problem, too, but the more modern millimeter wave (hold your arms up and the thing moves around you) are absolutely no problem.

agree with x86

by dwelch - 2020-01-18 15:17:08

the cheap one that is or used to be advertised here is junk.

EMI is a real concern its not a joke but you need some serious fields, we got a good meter and even though folks think 6 inches is some magical number that works for everything that is around what we found, this was a serious transformer.  Basically I would have to hug it while running which has its own other risks.

EMI problems are real, but you are going to have your device close, how close depends on the field.  your cell phone will start to freak out before your pacer does so you can use that as a meter if you want.  and your pacer will not have a problem for a fraction of the distance your phone does, so if the phone is 10 feet then the pacer is probably inches.

commercial products have rules about emi and sheilding, your computer, your clock radio, tv, etc.  specialized equipment, sub station transformers, etc will be built to a spec but will emit more than your tv/computer etc, are not something the average person buys at walmart so have different regulations.  Only trained professionals can get within the right distance to them (even the one in the front yard for buried lines every so many houses are regulated/designed).

welders and some items like that you are holding on to it, you are a fraction of an inch from the signal.   chain saw is likely more of a case of vibration and pacers with rate response and/or vibrating in the pocket, not an emi thing.  newer pacers are compatible with newer mri machines but that does not mean pacers are safe in mri machines, not all pacers/leads are brand new nor are all mri machines.  airport scanners are not a problem walk right on through, hesitate as you walk through it if you want, not a problem.  

ink is cheap almost free, pixels are even cheaper, it is easy to print a legal warning even if there is no risk, the reality for most of those products is that it is 1000, 10000, 1000000 times more likely someone is going to get hurt by that product that is not pacer related but that much ink that many pixels while still cheap create a fear problem and folks wouldnt go near it relatively nobody has a pacemaker, relatively nobody understands pacemakers, media and these kinds of warnings interfere with the understanding and lack of sensitivity of pacemakers. 

The proper response when you see a warning is to first giggle, look at how stupid they are.  Second consider your dollar votes, do I want to support a company that thinks this way, and then decide to toss the product on principle and never buy from them again.  Or to just have the laugh and toss the instructions/warning label and use the thing.

If it affects you it will be primarly in one of two ways, the battery test will happen and you get fixed at a rate in the 60s-80s, if you are exerting yourself or at rest you may feel the rate change and by checking your rate will see it wont change, leave the field try again.  The other way is your pacer gets confused and stops working, your response is anywhere, from cant even tell to pass out, by passing out you probably fall away from the problem if not someone will hopefully be there to get you.  So obvious things like the generators at a power plant if you can even get close to those or industrial equipment if you can even get close to the right kind of that, you are going to be monitored in those areas anyway, they wont leave you there.  I have been in those kinds of areas, didnt even notice.

No I dont know where to get a device which is the actual question.  We rented one from a reuptable business when we tested our equipment at work, needed something that could read a gauss or more.

 

 

 

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The pacer systems are really very reliable. The main problem is the incompetent programming of them. If yours is working well for you, get on with life and enjoy it. You probably are more at risk of problems with a valve job than the pacer.