Magnesium

Natural means

by Lavender - 2022-10-01 19:31:42

I prefer to get magnesium by natural means. My cardiologist told me to eat one dark chocolate small "dove" chocolate a day. I don't do that because my gastroenterologist said no chocolate! 🤪

So I eat almonds every day-in breakfast oatmeal and on daily yogurt. I eat lots of nuts, spinach and occasional salmon and a daily banana. 

Magnesium Supplement

by Stache - 2022-10-01 20:25:17

I have had a dual chamber pacer for 21 months.  I started taking magnesium and zinc when COVID hit here in the U.S, as I am non-vaccinated.  I was advised not to vaccinate with my heart condition at the time and to take supplements.  I have had regular blood tests to make sure my meds are working properly and not causing other issues.  There are a couple ways labs measure magnesium and the way my magnesium is measured I am in the normal rate between 1.7 to 2.2 mg/dL (0.85 to 1.10 mmol/L).  My doctor was pleased with my magnesium levels and the supplements do not affect my blood thinners or coagulants medicine.  A side benefit is the magnesium and zinc they help prevent colds, flu, and reduced the risk of COVID which we have not had.  We have not been sick and it does help with my leg muscle at night as I am an active bicycle rider.

We take 250 mg by Nature Made, the main ingredient is cellulose gel and several other ingredients.

Magnesium

by AgentX86 - 2022-10-01 22:10:21

I'm not big on suppliments but I take several that have been prescribed by doctors somewhere along the line. However, I'm a big believer in magnesium.  I take 400mg(ish) of Magnesium Taurate a day.  Magnesium was suggested by my EP as something to try for my PVCs.  The day I started taking the magnesium suppliments my PVCs stopped.  As a bonus, so did my leg cramps.  It was like a light switch.

Muscles and nerves can't opperate without the trace metals (sodium. potassium, and magnesium).  We normally get plenty (mostly too much) of sodium in our western diets.  Potassium is more difficult because there are fewer foods high in potassium.  It's pretty easy to OD on potassium so suppliments are more difficult.

Magnesium isn't everywhere either (though 12oz of dark chocolate a day will do 😉) but it's almost impossible to OD so suppliments are pretty safe.  The body will reject it well before the point of OD so the form is important so as much as possible is absorbed before that point.  Magnesium oxide doesn't absorb well (<10%) it's not a good idea and magnesium oxide = Milk of Magnesia.  Before enough would be absorbed, other "side-effects" would become apparent.

Other organic forms absorb much better. I don't think there is a bad one but from what I've read, some are better than others, depending on the need.  I don't know if it's true or not but the taurate form is supposed to be best for the heart.  But suppliment propaganda is rampant and it's impossible to separate fact from fiction.

Back to your magnesium citrate, it should be fine.  Don't take too much (see: magnesium oxide) but 3-400mg should be good. You'll still be getting magnesium from you diet and I think 400mg is considered the normal daily intake so more probably isn't needed or a good idea.

Note that I am not a doctor and I'm not prescribing anything, just my experiences and the information I've been able to find. Be sure to report all suppliments with the drugs you're taking to your doctors.

Supplements

by Gemita - 2022-10-02 08:59:50

Hello Claire,

My own personal view is that even with supplements, it would be helpful first to get evidence of a nutrient deficiency or of a need for a supplement “before” taking one and of course to work with a medical professional, like a dietician to monitor your progress. 

As we know, it is always wise to consult our GP, our chemist or our consultant “before” taking a supplement in case it interacts with any prescription meds we are taking.  Unfortunately most supplements have not been rigorously tested for effectiveness and safety in clinical trials as have our regular meds.

Some years ago, I sought the help of a holistic cancer centre in Bristol, UK.  I was asked to have a range of hair, skin, sweat analysis tests to establish whether I had any mineral/vitamin deficiencies.  I was then prescribed a cocktail of supplements:  Vitamin C (as Calcium Ascorbate), Vitamin B Complex, Magnesium (as Magnesium Ascorbate), Selenium, Zinc, Vitamin D after receiving confirmation of a marked Zinc, Magnesium, B6 and B12, Vitamin C and Vitamin D deficiency.  

I will never know whether the supplements tipped the scales in my favour or whether my lifestyle changes at the time made the difference, but I survived my metastatic cancer after being given a very guarded prognosis.  I am no longer taking all these supplements (which at the time were prescribed and paid for by the NHS), but I still take prescribed Vitamin D (for Osteoporosis) and Vitamin C in the form of Magnesium Ascorbate powder.

Like most of us I prefer to get the nutrients I need from my diet rather than from expensive supplements, but I realise sometimes this just isn’t possible and supplements will occasionally be needed to help keep nutrients at their optimum levels for a strong immune system.

Yes I too have read that Magnesium Taurate is the form of magnesium that most arrhythmia sufferers seem to find helpful.  It didn’t suit me Claire as well as Magnesium Ascorbate powder which is actually a non-acidic, buffered form of Vitamin C but an excellent source of Magnesium too.  It is well absorbed and well tolerated if started slowly (quarter teaspoon of the powder daily).

Claire, I have been fortunate with my doctors who have encouraged me to seek alternative means of helping with my arrhythmias.  My cardiologist, for example offered me Mindfulness therapy as a way to help control my arrhythmias.  Initially I was skeptical and resisted his offers of help until I met the Mindfulness doctor (a former A&E consultant) who explained that Mindfulness clinics are run in conjunction with arrhythmia clinics because Mindfulness may help reduce the need for other treatments like strong anti arrhythmic medication, an ablation or pacemaker therapy.  I eventually needed a pacemaker but have been helped immensely by Mindfulness therapy.  

Arrhythmia treatment is so individual and is all about finding what works best for you.  It sounds as though you need magnesium but perhaps Citrate is not the best form of magnesium to take, based on your test results and after being on it for a few years but it seems to help so why change it?  Of course a magnesium supplement won’t necessarily stop or prevent an arrhythmia especially if your magnesium levels are normal.  Remember too that if you take a magnesium supplement, other nutrients like calcium and potassium may get out of balance and this could also trigger worsening arrhythmias, so monitor for this closely too.

Mg Supplement

by Persephone - 2022-10-02 12:57:18

Thanks all for the helpful info here - I see some Mg supplements that contain "triple benefits" of Magnesium Glycinate, Malate and Taurate - anybody have any thoughts about those?

Persephone

by Gemita - 2022-10-02 15:39:35

Persephone, I often ask my pharmacist for advice on supplements, brands and ingredients.  They are so very helpful and will also be able to advise on any adverse interactions with your main medication. 

Also, the best advice I can give is to try the supplement and judge for yourself according to bowel tolerance and supplement effectiveness.  It doesn’t matter how much a particular supplement is deemed to be the best, if it cannot be tolerated, it is a waste of money and may even cause harm.   Always build up to recommended levels “slowly”.  Look for a supplement with few additives and of the highest quality.  

Although the claims for the triple benefits of Glycinate, Malate and Taurate all in one supplement appears enticing, rather than go for all three magnesium forms together, I would try one form at a time and see how it works for you.  If you can tolerate one form, then try another form until you are ready to try all three forms of magnesium "together".  That way you will know whether one form of magnesium is likely to cause problems.  As with our usual meds, it will be trial and error until we find something that works for us, but please make friends with your pharmacist or a dietician who will have extensive experience working with supplements.

Food sources for magnesium

by Good Dog - 2022-10-03 08:59:46

I really like to get my magnesium from food sources like pumpkin seeds (my personal favorite). They taste great and have many benefits, but here is a reference for other healthy sources (sorry, I left-out chocolate):

Magnesium Content of Selected Foods

Food                                                 Milligrams (mg) per serving      Percent DV*

Pumpkin seeds, roasted, 1 ounce          156                                                 37

Chia seeds, 1 ounce                               111                                                 26

Almonds, dry roasted, 1 ounce               80                                                   19

Spinach, boiled, ½ cup                            78                                                   19

Cashews, dry roasted, 1 ounce               74                                                   18

Peanuts, oil roasted, ¼ cup                     63                                                   15

Cereal, shredded wheat, 2 biscuits          61                                                   15

Soymilk, plain or vanilla, 1 cup                 61                                                   15

Black beans, cooked, ½ cup                    60                                                    14

Edamame, shelled, cooked, ½ cup          50                                                   12

Peanut butter, smooth, 2 tablespoons      49                                                   12

Potato, baked with skin, 3.5 ounces         43                                                    10

Rice, brown, cooked, ½ cup                     42                                                     10

Yogurt, plain, low fat, 8 ounces                 42                                                     10

Oatmeal, instant, 1 packet                        36                                                      9

Kidney beans, canned, ½ cup                  35                                                       8

Banana, 1 medium                                   32                                                       8

Salmon, Atlantic, farmed,

cooked, 3 ounces                                     26                                                       6

Milk, 1 cup                                                24–27                                                  6

Halibut, cooked, 3 ounces                        24                                                        6

Raisins, ½ cup                                          23                                                        5

*DV = Daily Value. The U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) developed DVs to help consumers compare the nutrient contents of foods and dietary supplements within the context of a total diet. The DV for magnesium is 420 mg for adults and children aged 4 years and older. 

Thanks Good Dog!

by Persephone - 2022-10-03 09:22:38

Very helpful.

It was like a light switch.

by Persephone - 2022-10-05 19:21:49

Started my Mg supplement yesterday, so just a preliminary msg and not very much data to report on, and I could be subject to the placebo effect, but it was great to sleep well and not wake up with leg cramps. So far so good. Taking half of the recommended dose, and I will discuss it with doc and ask their opinion. Agent, you've been promoting Mg for as long as I've been hovering around this site, and Claire's asking of the question got me to finally listen to you. Thank you all.

Placebo effect

by _Claire_ - 2022-10-06 14:57:14

All really helpful comments here! 

Persephone - I’m so glad that you're having positive results. You made me laugh because I too was thinking about the potential placebo effect today. I upped my magnesium significantly and have been eating a super high magnesium diet. It must be a week or more now and a whole host of symptoms went away together, my ectopic beats stopped yesterday (fingers crossed it stays this way), my muscle twitching has stopped, my nausea has gone away and I don't feel wiped out anymore. 
 

Gooddog - I have incorporated lots of those foods thank you, very helpful for many people I’m sure! 

General question here - has anyone heard of the Trousseau sign of latent tetany? Seems my gut instinct about my electrolytes may have been correct. I found out a few days ago that a spasm I had gotten twice (3 months apart) at hospital during blood pressure reading was the Trousseau sign. This is almost always indicative of calcium deficiency and sometimes magnesium deficiency. I also found out that magnesium blood serum tests are not an accurate way to measure magnesium and very often miss magnesium deficiency. 99% of magnesium is stored in the bones and tissue, less that 1% in the blood, so the basic blood test often isn't reflective of the true potential problem. Apparently the body will keep blood levels normal even when magnesium is depleted in the bones and tissue. I found this out from peer reviewed journals so accurate sources of information. I then asked my GP about this and he had no idea and told me my levels are fine so to basically forget it. I therefore spoke to a private GP with a longer history in medicine and he did agree with these points and told me to see a endocrinologist as he didn't know of an accurate magnesium test. He said all my symptoms are of a magnesium deficiency. I’m going to speak to my cardiologist tomorrow and see what he thinks about these issue. I wonder how many people are magnesium deficient and suffering severe consequences and have no idea!! 
 

Gemita - Thank you for so much helpful info. I have bought multiple types of magnesium and will be doing some trial and error slowly. I'll see what dose my cardiologist recommends tomorrow. I’m not sure how to get evidence of the magnesium deficiency unless there is a better test than blood serum available. I was surprised that the test is so unreliable as the hospital and GP seemed SO confident of my blood results being normal. I’m glad I found out that the test is unreliable. The private GP I spoke to said as my magnesium levels are at the bottom of the normal range, this is subclinical deficiency and would get worse as my gluten free diet is notoriously low in magnesium and I don't drink dairy milk (big sources of magnesium). I had always had such a good diet rich in magnesium but recent health problems over the past year meant I changed my diet and never really consciously realised that I had almost eliminated magnesium (gluten and dairy free). I also stopped eating nuts due to chest pain and trying to alter diet so see if reflux was part of it. It was all meant to be temporary but the year flew past. It can't have helped. The blood test for magnesium raises an ethical issue for me as it was presented to me as being reliable. That could have given me a false sense of security for the future. If I wasn't so "difficult" by getting my blood results and checking them etc, doing my own research, persistently asking questions and seeking second opinions, I could have ended up suffering unnecessary symptoms long term. I’m not claiming magnesium is the cause of all my problems but given that my sinus node dysfunction is rather unexplained at a young age, I do think there would have been value in knowing this potential deficiency.
 

AgentX86 - Very nice to hear from you (it's been a while). I hope you are keeping well. Yes, definitely the only supplement that I have taken long term (but clearly I've not taken enough). I said in the original post that I get lots of magnesium in my diet but overlooked that for the past year (the time flew) I've really been on a super low magnesium diet (unintended) due to eating gluten free and cutting other foods to try and work out what my chest pain might be. I’m going to order Magnesium Taurate to add to my hoard of magnesium supplements. 
 

Lavender and Stache, others - thank you for your helpful comments too! 

Next steps - start a new thread?

by Persephone - 2022-10-06 17:01:24

Thanks so much for getting this thread started, Claire. Just want to clariify (sorry for the possible pun with your name - not sure if there actually is a connection) that the subject line of my most recent post was from Agent's message. I should have put quotes around it or somehow marked it because I don't have enough info to share on my experience yet.

At any rate, perhaps considering starting a new thread on the subject of your most recent post - I find it very interesting.

Claire

by Gemita - 2022-10-07 11:38:13

I have just checked the Biolab Medical Unit I used to have a range of blood, hair, skin and sweat analysis tests carried out to check my vitamin and mineral status and to my dismay I see they recently went into administration.  I attach their link below so you can see the type of laboratory they were:

https://www.biolab.co.uk/

If you consult your doctor (GP) in the UK, they will have knowledge of specialist laboratories they use and can recommend you approach to have a private magnesium test carried out, since their own "general" magnesium test may not give the same degree of information.  

Looking at my old papers, they were so thorough at Biolab.  They checked calcium, magnesium, phosphorus, sodium, potassium, iron, copper, zinc, chromium, manganese, selenium, nickel, cobalt with hair/sweat/skin analysis tests.  

They found that levels of lead, mercury, cadmium, arsenic, aluminium were all within acceptable range.  They found Vitamin E and C were low.  They commented "marked Zinc and Magnesium deficiency", whereas my regular blood tests were showing borderline normal levels.  All Vitamin B status levels were poor (to extremely poor B12 and B6).

A sub clinical deficiency is often treated to improve vitamin/mineral status.

Gemita

by _Claire_ - 2022-10-07 20:12:30

That's amazing! I’m going to research a similar type of lab with similar tests. I wish I'd done this sooner. I seem to have a difficult time with the GPs. I had a better experience recently with a private GP, so I don't know if I’m just unlucky at my GP practice (I think most are locums). I did speak to my cardiology consultant today and he listened to my concerns and said that we should aim to get my magnesium to 0.90 mmol/L or 1 mmol/L. He didn't directly comment on the accuracy of the blood serum test for magnesium deficiency, but what I think I understood as the rationale to use this test again was that regardless of actually knowing the true intercellular magnesium levels, we should expect to see a rise in blood serum magnesium levels with supplementation. He said 300mg is fine and the magnesium citrate is also fine. He said if my GP refuses then we can arrange a blood test at the hospital in 8-10 weeks to retest levels as it's important to make sure levels don't get high. I felt so relieved to be listened to. I feel quite annoyed that most of the GPs I speak to won't entertain my questions as I think my questions are generally valid. My cardiology appointments are infrequent and the GP really should be interested in my health, but they aren't. It's my cardiologist that seems to pick up the pieces where the GPs could be pulling their weight. Things like cholesterol test, and electrolytes were a battle at the GP, then my cardiologist said cholesterol should really have been done fasting so offered to repeat it, my cardiologist did some initial inflamatory blood tests (as I'd spoken about possible autoimmune symptoms). I feel lucky to have a really excellent cardiologist who has given me every test that exists (that would be beneficial for my circumstances) but I think I have this simmering anxiety about the poor experiences I continuously have with GPs, if I mention anything heart related and the thought of ever having to speak to another GP makes me feel ill. I once remember a GP telling me that my cholesterol was raised because "I eat avocados and they are full of saturated fat". Face palm moment - I sat there speechless. I don't know how to navigate that type of thing or what to say in those situations (but I've had many of these situations). So I despair. I realise that I probably ask a lot of questions and maybe they don't like that, but why wouldn't we expect the very best healthcare that we can get and why wouldn't we be active participants in our health, and why is trying to be proactive and preventative seen as such a bad thing? In my job, if I don't know an answer to a question then I will admit that I don't know, but I will find out the answer and tell the person in question that I will get back to them with an answer. Sorry that this turned into an unintended rant. :) 

Magnesium

by Mirkin - 2023-05-29 22:37:18

Hello Everyone,

Some very interesting comments from you all.

I found these links from a cardiologist yesterday and thought you might find them interesting:

Magnesium questions answered
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ckdcr-cp9w8

Why is Magnesium good for us
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZYXBYAHhN8