ex UFC fighter needs help with post implant sports knowledge

Just one comment

by Lavender - 2023-07-07 10:24:18

I cannot answer your questions. Others here have experience in your sports and athletics. I just want to address this comment of yours:

"my doctors are terrified of answering these questions as they normally deal with inactive patients at a later life stage "

😲🤯 mind blown! 🤪 because the majority of pacemaker recipients are NOT INACTIVE, later life stage folks!

Babies get pacemakers, many many athletes have them, many folks here have had them for decades. Oh geez I am not inactive or at later life stage-heaven forbid!

If your docs are what you say, then find someone more knowledgeable!

doctors just dont have the time to cater for the individual anymore

by TPMP001 - 2023-07-07 10:41:51

i think the problem is doctors they dont have time to cater for the individual and the majority of your questions are answered by specialist nurses . 

in 2 years i have spoken to the doctor for 20 minutes 

thats why im seeking further insight on the forum . 

i know that many younger and more active people have pacemakers , but not many fought  in the UFC and want to continue doing contact sports . 

well not at st barts anyway 

but my main questions are what movements are dangerous for leads , are deadlifts , tugging a leg , shoulder press , hitting a bag , someone sitting on you chest ??

A personal trainer point of view or a sports expert is really what i need . 

getting another doctor in the UK NHS is not easy , unless you have private medcare 

Advice

by Lavender - 2023-07-07 11:26:55

It's so true. Time with doctors, here in America is also limited and I am seeing/talking more with physicians assistants. 

Most of what I learned about pacemakers was learned here on the forum! Hopefully soon our athletes will step aboard and address your questions!  

I would never let anyone sit on my chest😲🤣 but I admire your courage and dedication!💕

UFC

by AgentX86 - 2023-07-07 11:33:29

Hi TPMP, welcome to the club that no one wants to have even heard about.

One of the few big no-nos is "contact sports". While you're not doing to desroy the generator with liquifying you (they've stopped bullets and kept on ticking), but the leads are nowhere near as robust. A kick to the pacer may break leads.  It's sure to bring you to your knees in pain, probably with some pretty good bruising. 

I see they placed it sub-pectoral, rather than the usual subcutaneous. That's good.  It'll be a lot more protected there.  Enough for direct contact?  There are shields advertised in this web site to, at least theoretically, to protect it better. I have no experience with them.

Your docctors are "terrified". This is likely some combination of concern and CYA. I know my cardiologist would chew my ear off for an hour if I even suggested physical contact, like that. I'm not supposed to free-weight press and, as indicated, no contact sports.  Not even flag football.  AIUI, some of these sports are more of style than actual contact.  If I were thirty years younger, it might matter to me.

If your cardiologist saif that he doesn't treat active people, only sedentary oseniors, find another cardiologist. Now. Yes, there are a lot of sedentary people with pacemakers. Some people are couch potatoes, others may have other medical issues that make serious exercise very difficult or impossible.  However, there are a lot of people who are otherwise very healty and active and many in their twenties and even younger (a few from birth).  This club is full of very active people.  Just hang around and you'll see many with your sort of questions, a lot dealing with optimizing their pacemaker for optimum performance. Not just to do something, also for competetive sports. If your cardiologist hasn't had patients like these find one who does.  I don't know the system in the UK but I'd just take my business down the street to the next cardiologist or even find a sports cardiologist.

BTW, my cardiologist has never rushed me out the door.  He always has time for small-talk, particularly if my wife is with me. He knows us by our first names. My EP (in a major teching hospital) was the same.  They know exactly what the deal was before entering the room and just needed to know what was new and to go over the results of any new tests and recommend any next steps.  When I did have a decision to make (e.g. drugs, ablation, or AV ablation) all of the options, pros/cons, and recomendations.  I was then left to decide the path, which often was all of them.  See what works.

BJJ and pacemaker

by Rj - 2023-07-07 14:45:54

Had a pacemaker put in April 2021. As soon as I received clearance I was back on the mat. Here's what can happen and what I personally encountered, your pacer can flip on itself during hard rolling, darce, triangle, or when I'm smashing and sliding down which is the position that can flip the pace on itself causing a trip to the ED. I still roll but will tap when I feel the pacer is in a precarious position. As for the device monitoring me, there are two ways, breathing and motion. As a medical team decision we decided to turn off the motion data due to the contact sport and I'm only monitored via breathing. Regarding breathing, there is a trick to kick the pacer to increase heart rate providing a kick start.  Taking a couple of quick breaths will trick the pacer to increase heart rate which helps when your underneath. Hope this helps. 

Dear RJ MORE INFORMATION PLEASE

by TPMP001 - 2023-07-08 06:58:48

Dear RJ 

a few questions please 

do you have a subpectorial implant ?

Did they permanently suture the device for no movement ?

also i quess a safer way is to take top position and prevent arm bars and kimura ?

what about wrestling and cage takedowns . ?

im pretty good its hard to get a take down on me and my best takedown are of a double and body attacks .

weight wise am i allowed bench press? deadlifts ?

also how long after the implant where you ready to have a little roll ?

do you wear any protective gear ?

my work i care stuff on my shoulders is that advisable , shoulder press etc ?

and your opinion can i hit bags and shadow box and run ??

the specialist nurse is saying repetitive arm movement like bags might cause damage but shes a dummy . 

my problem is sleep time only , no heart rate restriction during activities . 

i thank everyone for theeir replies again i already go to a specialist hospital , i had to complain 3 time to admin before i was even assesed and then they found the problem . 

i would have still been waiting for my appointment . 

should i refuse a pacemaker it would be 2 years before they got around to me again . 

MORE QUESTION PLEASE RJ

by TPMP001 - 2023-07-08 07:09:40

you mentioned choke , i quess because the implant is positioned below the colar bone , neck cranks and anything that pulls your neck at a angle is dangerous ???

i quess what i need to really know is what pulling movements have a larger dangeer of affecting the leads . ?

will direct impact with 16oz gloves be a problem ? are leads protected by the ribs ??

you would think a consultant would be able to answer these questions . 

i am seeking proffessional help but your opinion is valuable please . 

Flippig the pacemaker on itself

by AgentX86 - 2023-07-08 12:15:06

If this means fliping tthe pacemaker on its axis, this is very bad. Twisting the leads isn't good. "Device twiddlers" often do this and it may lead to another surgery to correct.

There is no such thing as a "permanent suture.  It may not take a lot to rip them out. It happens to some without any undue stress.

I've been told no free-weight presses. Any amount of machine work is fine. The issue is crusing the leads against the clavicle. I may be one of the very few who has been proscribed from free-weight presses, though.  When in doubt, ask.  You will get a CYA answer but press it. Ask why and see if there is an answer or if it's a <mumble mumble> CVA answer.

Should you get a pacemaker? I'd ask why.  Since you have a Mobiz-1 block, I'd wanr know what the deal is. Mobitz-1 doesn't usually require a pacemaker.  Here is a good article on type-2 heart blocks. Ask.

<https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK482359/>

Thank you Agent

by TPMP001 - 2023-07-08 13:32:22

I cant really question the head of arrythmya in st barts hospital . 

i looked her up she wrote the book on ablation in the uk . 

i think its more a precaution as arrythmia gets worse . 

although there are many here that train extremely hard and have a pacemaker . 

i just need advise on someone who really trains hard with a pacemaker and as some advise on precaustions 

should you or not

by new to pace.... - 2023-07-08 14:28:36

The question is what is more important your heart beating right?  Or what you would like to continue doing.?   What the risks are?  Only you can answer those questions.                                                                                         You might take a piece of paper and mark two columns: one has heart beating right  the other what are the risks if you keep doing what you like.

new to pace

pacer friendly sports

by Amyelynn - 2023-07-08 17:42:05

Hi

I recently got told by my new EP to "stop bodybuilding" which in turn I respinded with "i dont bodybuild" as most of the working out I do in my home gym is bodyweight focused. I do use some weight heres and there body no realy heavy lifting especially of upper body focused moves.

So the doctor basically told me any heavy lifting of upper body focused moves would be bad for the leads. I have read about this in a few medical cases here men in prison wh lift alot had issues with lead fractures.

Id personally say that no hight contact actitvites are a good idea. getting hit hard in your pacer could be really bad.

for workouts i like the rings for upper body/back/chest, i dot alot of jump roping,rowing,dips, alot of bodyweight exercises that consists of planking full body and core focused moves,alot of leg/core work, and full body moves that are not one muscle focused exercises such as bicep curls. does that make sense? I workout a lot but i gotta say Im no pro and also bad with the correct terms/names.

Id stay clear of chest presses or other weighted exercises that are overhead that you can pictur ewoudl affect your leads.

cross fit would be terrible for leads! and in my opinion just not great in general for your body.

have you looked into swimming, running, triathalons, or bodyweight focused workouts? 

hope this helps!

Depends on placement.

by PacedNRunning - 2023-07-09 02:45:15

If they insert the leads via cephalic  route you have a lower chance of fracturing leads due to subclavian rubbing against the clavical. Mine are this way and my doctor told me, I don't have that risk due to how he placed the leads. He also preferred not under the muscle since I'm so active. Because again, the leads get pinched under the muscle. The muscles will squeeze the leads and cause wear and tear faster. I'm very active. I run, bike, golf, lift weights including free weights. I was given NO restrictions. I do limit upper body weight training just to be cautious. Talk about lead placement with your doctor. Mine is buried deep under the skin and stitched down with a permanent Suture. There is a small Hole at the top of all devices. They suture a stitich to the tissue so it won't flip. Hope that helps. 

BJJ reply

by Rj - 2023-07-10 19:49:32

TMP001

My pacer is subcutaneous which allows for more movement.

I use a rash guard with a sewn pocket on the inside that holds a flexible shotgun pad. I copied the idea from the Vital Beat ad above. I do gi and no-gi. 

My workout of choice is Kettle bells as it compliments Jiujitsu movements. I still deadlift, squat heavy, snatch and clean.

I roll like I did before the pacer was put in, being careful not to impinge the device or the leads (yep, I know most will be shocked that I do a physical contact sports and will say that's a no go).  I still do wrestling and judo as it works in Jiujitsu. 
 

I should also add that I'm in better than average physical condition, I am a personal trainer, yoga instructor, and massage therapist with a health career in Radiology. 
 

I still will do light sparring in boxing but I'm sure to wear my rash guard with pad to cover the device.

What I won't do is competition as I see it as an uncontrolled environment, the difference between competition and home gym or visiting gyms is that I can always stop the roll before it gets out of hand.  And yep, I've gone to different gyms to roll and have not disclosed I had a pacer.  Sometimes they ask about the pad covering my left pec and then I'll tell them I have a pacer.

I would add, this is not medical advice, this is my journey living with a pacemaker.