Not necessarily a death wish

I've noticed that every time someone says anything about wanting a pm/icd removed or wishing they'd never got one, people seem to think that's the same as saying they don't want to live. People have varying degrees of needing or not needing their devices. Some of us never had a serious life threatening emergency, just indications of that being a possibility. Kind of like everytime you drive a car, you risk having an accident. I know people who had a car accident, and never drove again because of fear of it happening again, yet most people think that's unreasonable fear. I think getting my pm was premature, and wasn't truly informed about the risk of different complications. (Like tedlutz3, "i thought you just went in and got a pacemaker and that was it.apparently, there are more complications than i knew about prior to surgery.) But, because I'd been in pain with a kidney stone, and they wouldn't do the procedure (lithotripsy) because of my slow heartrate, I got the pm all in one day. The next day, they told me they'd have to see if it was safe to have the lithotripsy for my kidney stone now that I had the pacemaker!
There's a POSSIBILITY of death any time anyone has a surgery, and each individual has to make a decision about what their willing or not willing to risk or give up in hopes of the chance of improvement. How many of us would be willing to give up our independence by having a 24 hour personal body guard just because there's a possibility of being a victim of an assault? Depends on how real we each perceive that possibility, and how much we treasure our independence. Who's to say that my risk of a heart rhythm problem was greater than the risk of infection that I took in just having the pm surgery? And as far as improving my life is concerned, I've lost more time over the last 5 months from post surgery pain than I ever did because of the slow heartrate. Now that might change in the future, but I think I could have waited had I thought about how many pacemaker surgeries I should HOPE to have unless they figure out a way to make batteries last longer. And when I think of the possibilty of having leads replaced (which I knew nothing about prior to having the pacemaker implanted) I definitely think I'd have waited until I had a stronger possibility of having problems.
Vonnie

11 Comments

I agree.....

by turboz24 - 2008-03-14 10:03:22

I also think that when anyone comments about not wanting their pacemaker/ICD it's a combination of factors.

As Vonnie said, it's risk. What is your true risk of having issues and is it worth the risk of complications with the pacemaker/ICD? Afterall, you have possible infection, bleeding, general complications. Then after the surgery, you can have complications with the scar, complications with the pacing/defib settings, pain issues, etc.

You also experience a loss of control with a pacemaker/ICD. Even if you didn't have control over your life in reality, most of us still like the illusion of control (like gated communities. We all know it doesn't really work, but makes most people feel safer).

Then there is the prospect of repeated surgeries every 3-5 years for device replacement, lead replacement, etc.

You also end up with restrictions to what you can do, etc. The easiest way for someone to want something is to tell them they can't have/do it.

You also end up with the disfigurement issues of the implant.

So, how each factor affects you is going to affect how well you handle the whole situation.

No choice

by boatman50 - 2008-03-14 11:03:10

I would love to be pm free, however without the pm I would not be writing this letter. There are many of us that got a pm after our hearts stopped and that in itself gives us cause to think deeply about this.

I agree too

by ElectricFrank - 2008-03-14 11:03:16

Only we can make the decision of how much risk we are comfortable with. After all you could make a case for implanting an ICD in all of us when we reach a certain age. If I run my risk factors on American Heart Association evaluation form I have a 25% chance of a heart attack in the next 10 years. If I so all the things they want me to do I lower it to a 17% chance. Now at nearly 78 years old I don't think 25% is bad at all. What that means is that out of 100 people like me 25 will have a coronary event. It also means that 75 won't. But why with my risks shouldn't I have an ICD instead of a pacemaker? I have a 25% chance of needing it in the next 10 yrs. So I'm sure the ICD manufacturers would like this and if they could convince us then I must have a death wish if I don't get one.
Having said this I don't knock anyone who decides that staying alive is top priority for them.

frank

no choice either

by jessie - 2008-03-14 11:03:33

i myself had an e.r. implant to save my life. i was really sick and did not know how sick. i was saved so i am pretty grateful for it myself. i feel the positives i received far outweigh the negatives. i will take a scar any day. it is my battlescar lol. jessie

Yea Jessie

by bowlrbob - 2008-03-15 01:03:18

Ditto Jessie, my circumstances were the same for me as for her. I also feel the same way. I am grateful for a second chance at life. It has been another way of being reborn. I had never even been in a hospital before and I was 63 at the time. This is my only scar and I think it looks WONDERFUL. Bowlrbob

death wish ? NOT

by Aztec - 2008-03-15 05:03:15

weather we have one put in or not or have it taken out its all up to God when or how we leave this life.

My PM Gave Me a Life

by bjmcpherren - 2008-03-15 10:03:42

I was 18 when I received my first pacemaker, 30 years ago! As a child I was very limited as to what I could do physically. The PM gave me a normal life with next to no restrictions. I have had 4 battery replacements and I believe 4 lead replacements my most recent in August 07. Since my last surgery I have had problems and struggling to get back on my feet but without the PM I have no life. I do not know life without one and am very greatful to have one. A few minor scars which are a part of me and do not hide, a slight elevation in my chest which I know is my lifeline and I thank God for it. There are risks in everything we do and I believe that my PM is the least of my worries.
Bonnie

Getting a pacemaker

by gmnordy - 2008-03-15 10:03:52

I had mine put in as an emergency. I was out of it, heart rate 20, bp 60/30ish. I thought I heard someone say something about a pacemaker but again, I was really out of it. I finally got a sense of what was happening and I asked them if they had the right patient. LOL They said the doctor I worked for said I would say that and to not complain and get it. So then I knew it was me.
I dont want a pacemaker, really, who does? But it does keep me alive and I am thankful for that. It is a bother to have to go get checked all the time and to have to think about the battery going low, etc. But I just deal with it and go on with things.
If you want yours out, then tell your doctor and have it out. You are the patient, if you want it out, it is your decision.

Death Wish

by ElectricFrank - 2008-03-15 11:03:44

Just saw the TV news of the tornado that went through Atlanta and shook up the Dome where a basket ball game was being played. Now the question is: do all of the people who went to the game when there was a tornado warning have a death wish?

just a thought

frank

A lot of personal perspectives

by turboz24 - 2008-03-15 12:03:22

I alot of people are posting their own personal perspectives.

Sure, if you end up in the hospital and you basically have a 100% chance of dying without a pacemaker/ICD, that's great for you. It's a nice clear cut decision. If your life otherwise is fine (ie you arn't dying of other complications anyways), then you have pretty much an obvious choice.

I have sustained tachycardia's, but even my EP said that as long as I was cardioverted within 30-45 minutes, I'd pretty much be ok. I was in full Vtach, and still finished working out, ate dinner, then discovered why I was a little light headed and went to the ER. On drugs and probably after my ablation on the 26th, I'll probably never have another Vtach high enough to cause issues. So, do I still need an ICD?

What about a patient who has a lowered heart rate or a risk of tachycardia, but has never experienced issues with it, do they need a pacemaker/ICD? They may get it implanted and never use it. They might have a higher risk of getting struck by lightening of winning the lottery than needing their pacemaker/ICD.

These are the decisions that we are mostly taking about, when the chance of problems is relatively low, does the risk/issues with their pacemaker/ICD outweigh the reason they want to implant it in the first place?

More Death Wish

by ElectricFrank - 2008-03-16 01:03:46

Here are few death wishes to think about:

How about these astronauts who climb on top of a machine loaded with tons of high explosives and let someone light the fuze.

Get on board a jet liner and roar full speed down a concrete road that comes to an end, hoping it will be airborne before reaching it.

Letting an EP run a study where he stops and starts our heart and then burns a scare in it, not knowing if he has a hangover from a night out last nite.

Start across a busy street on a green light not knowing if one of those cars you walk in front of has some psycho at the wheel.

And finally getting up in the morning when you don't know if God is having a bad day!!

frank

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